Crosswind landing control..

All,

When touching down in a crosswind, after the mains and the nosewheel
have all touched down firmly and are rolling, would it be proper
procedure to apply slight forward pressure to get better steering from
the nosewheel? Often, noseweel steering seems ineffective, and this
seems to have helped my control on rollout.

Any cautions? I have heard about "wheelbarrowing" but is that more of
a takeoff issue than landing issue? Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?

--Dan

Use the rudder not the wheel... it would be very bad practice to put
pressure on the nose-wheel. Your concern is slowing the plane down to
get it to a speed where the nose wheel will be effective, for that you
need back pressure and brakes, which is why the mains need to be firmly
on the ground to give them the best grip.
Dan wrote:
All,

When touching down in a crosswind, after the mains and the nosewheel
have all touched down firmly and are rolling, would it be proper
procedure to apply slight forward pressure to get better steering from
the nosewheel? Often, noseweel steering seems ineffective, and this
seems to have helped my control on rollout.

Any cautions? I have heard about "wheelbarrowing" but is that more of
a takeoff issue than landing issue? Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?

--Dan

I would not apply forward pressure to the stick. I would apply heavier than
normal braking to get more weight on the wheels, and apply back pressure at
the same time so the decelleration does not throw more weight onto the nose
tire/strut. Heavier than normal braking tends to flat spot tires if the
weight is not fully on the mains.

Wheel barrowing is a common occurance on landing when a pilot forces the
airplane to land before it is ready.
Common evidence of wheel barrowing in Cessna's is damage to the lower fire
wall, sometimes to the point that day light is seen through the seperation.

BT

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
All,

When touching down in a crosswind, after the mains and the nosewheel
have all touched down firmly and are rolling, would it be proper
procedure to apply slight forward pressure to get better steering from
the nosewheel? Often, noseweel steering seems ineffective, and this
seems to have helped my control on rollout.

Any cautions? I have heard about "wheelbarrowing" but is that more of
a takeoff issue than landing issue? Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?

--Dan

So, this damage is a result of slamming the nosewheel down, or applying
forward pressure after the wheels are firmly on the ground?

It would seem that forward pressure on the stick would not actually
_push_ the nosewheel down, but simply allow the weight of the engine to
settle onto the nosewheel sooner.. Does pushing actually apply more
downward force on the nosewheel than when the plane is sitting on the
ramp?

I think that getting the flaps up immediately will help my technique
also. (PA28s w/ manual flaps.)

--Dan




Wheel barrowing is a common occurance on landing when a pilot forces the
airplane to land before it is ready.
Common evidence of wheel barrowing in Cessna's is damage to the lower fire
wall, sometimes to the point that day light is seen through the seperation.

BT

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
All,

When touching down in a crosswind, after the mains and the nosewheel
have all touched down firmly and are rolling, would it be proper
procedure to apply slight forward pressure to get better steering from
the nosewheel? Often, noseweel steering seems ineffective, and this
seems to have helped my control on rollout.

Any cautions? I have heard about "wheelbarrowing" but is that more of
a takeoff issue than landing issue? Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?

--Dan

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
So, this damage is a result of slamming the nosewheel down, or applying
forward pressure after the wheels are firmly on the ground?

It would seem that forward pressure on the stick would not actually
_push_ the nosewheel down, but simply allow the weight of the engine to
settle onto the nosewheel sooner.. Does pushing actually apply more
downward force on the nosewheel than when the plane is sitting on the
ramp?

No, it doesn't, but when travelling at speed down the runway, pushing the
stick forward increases the angle of attack of the tail plane, (obviously),
and in effect, transfers more weight to the front of the a/c by making the
rear lighter. (I think I'm explaining this right!)
Oz Lander

My impression that the elevator applied varying levels of downward
force to balance the plane about the center of lift. I am not aware
that the elevator could even produce _upward_ force on the tail.

If it can't produce upward force, then the rear of the plane could be
made no lighter than when it is standing still, therefore it could
transfer no _additional_ weight to the nosewheel no matter what the
control inputs. Where is this logic flawed (seriously, I want to
understand if this is wrong...)


--Dan


Crash Lander wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
So, this damage is a result of slamming the nosewheel down, or applying
forward pressure after the wheels are firmly on the ground?

It would seem that forward pressure on the stick would not actually
_push_ the nosewheel down, but simply allow the weight of the engine to
settle onto the nosewheel sooner.. Does pushing actually apply more
downward force on the nosewheel than when the plane is sitting on the
ramp?

No, it doesn't, but when travelling at speed down the runway, pushing the
stick forward increases the angle of attack of the tail plane, (obviously),
and in effect, transfers more weight to the front of the a/c by making the
rear lighter. (I think I'm explaining this right!)
Oz Lander

"Dan" wrote in message
ps.com...
My impression that the elevator applied varying levels of downward
force to balance the plane about the center of lift. I am not aware
that the elevator could even produce _upward_ force on the tail.


If the elevator couldn't generate an _upward_ force, then you couldn't pick
up the tail on an taildragger, right? Let me assure you, you can pick up the
tail on a taildragger.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

On 3 Dec 2006 21:52:57 -0800, Dan wrote:
My impression that the elevator applied varying levels of downward
force to balance the plane about the center of lift. I am not aware
that the elevator could even produce _upward_ force on the tail.

If it can't produce upward force, then the rear of the plane could be
made no lighter than when it is standing still, therefore it could
transfer no _additional_ weight to the nosewheel no matter what the
control inputs. Where is this logic flawed (seriously, I want to
understand if this is wrong...)

Airplanes are normally trimmed (and loaded within limits) so the
horizontal stabilizer provides a relatively small downward force.
This gives positive pitch stability without a major increase in
drag.

If your model of how the elevator works was valid, it would be
impossible for an aircraft to fly inverted since even full down
elevator wouldn't be enough to counteract the nose-down pitch
moment.

You also have to consider that an aircraft on the ground would
pitch around an axis passing through the main landing gear,
not through the wing's center of lift.


ljd

BT wrote:

I would not apply forward pressure to the stick. I would apply heavier than
normal braking to get more weight on the wheels, and apply back pressure at
the same time so the decelleration does not throw more weight onto the nose
tire/strut. Heavier than normal braking tends to flat spot tires if the
weight is not fully on the mains.

Wheel barrowing is a common occurance on landing when a pilot forces the
airplane to land before it is ready.
Common evidence of wheel barrowing in Cessna's is damage to the lower fire
wall, sometimes to the point that day light is seen through the seperation.

I don't think wheelbarrowing will damage the firewheel. It takes a
landing on the nosewheel to do that. This isn't quite the same as
wheelbarrowing.


Matt

Wheel barrowing will cause loss of directional control and
the accident will damage the airplane.

Many Cessna airplane are used for student instruction, as
are Piper and Beech, all are often landed on the nose wheel
by student pilots (and other too) and damage is not
uncommon.

Transport category airplanes are often designed with a
negative angle of attack when the nose wheel is on the
ground and they also have ground spoilers. Some GA light
twins, such as the Duke, have a negative lift with the nose
on the ground, but most light aircraft have enough tail area
to lift a major portion of the weight from the main wheels
with full down elevator.

Land, hold the nose off and then reduce back pressure and
lower the nose wheel into contact with the ground. Some
airplanes, such as the Piper singles may need to have the
nose wheel steering straightened before the wheel is allowed
to touch down. Some airplanes disconnect nose wheel
steering until the wheel has weight applied.
Once the nose wheel is firmly on the ground, apply brakes
and smoothly apply aft pressure again until the control is
fully aft.


Be sure to use the ailerons, elevator and brakes to control
the airplane. Some differential power on a twin can be
used, but on a slick runway, be careful. If you have
reverse thrust, be extra careful about directional control.



"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
| BT wrote:
|
| I would not apply forward pressure to the stick. I would
apply heavier than
| normal braking to get more weight on the wheels, and
apply back pressure at
| the same time so the decelleration does not throw more
weight onto the nose
| tire/strut. Heavier than normal braking tends to flat
spot tires if the
| weight is not fully on the mains.
|
| Wheel barrowing is a common occurance on landing when a
pilot forces the
| airplane to land before it is ready.
| Common evidence of wheel barrowing in Cessna's is damage
to the lower fire
| wall, sometimes to the point that day light is seen
through the seperation.
|
| I don't think wheelbarrowing will damage the firewheel.
It takes a
| landing on the nosewheel to do that. This isn't quite the
same as
| wheelbarrowing.
|
|
| Matt