If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
In article , Mitty
wrote: On 2/23/2007 9:01 AM, Robert Chambers wrote the following: I gotta wonder if the approach controller told the local controller that there was an emergency declared, it didn't appear on the video but my have been edited out. and what was AA squawking? A 7700 should have made sure everyone knew. If you've already told the controller you have an emergency, squawking 7700 doesn't add anything to the situation. The 7700 stuff is for when you're out of radio contact. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
tscottme wrote:
Yeah, that is what struck me about the video, the approach controller didn't mention "emergency" in the phone call to tower controller. It that indeed happened, I wouldn't put much blame on ATC, except the approach controller. I'm thinking that runway assignment and suitable vectors would have been in use befor AA crew ever talked to tower freq. I first expected the video to show yet another "ahhhh approach we got us here this little ol' situation and we're just wondering how ol' 17 center is lookin..." that some pilots seem determined to use when they have an emerigency. I understand the psychological need to keep a lid on things, and understand denial as well as the next guy, but many pilots need to better understand that declaring an emergency should come more easily than they often assume. You are absolutely correct. Airline pilots, as a group, tend to be the worst about this because of subtle company intimidation. ATC could have very well taken this as a declaration of minimum fuel, which is NOT a declaration of emergency. The magig words are, "American 123 is declaring an emergency." ATC response, "American 123 what is the nature of your emergency?" And, then the trolly is on the track. If ATC fails to respond to that properly and gives the run around, the pilot should then be resourceful to get them to understand they will give him what he needs. "Mayday, mayday, mayday" is one option that hopefully should not be needed. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
On 2/23/2007 6:21 PM, Roy Smith wrote the following:
If you've already told the controller you have an emergency, squawking 7700 doesn't add anything to the situation. The 7700 stuff is for when you're out of radio contact. Au contraire. With a 7700 squawk then if the emergency situation wasn't mentioned in the handoff (which it possibly wasn't) then the next controller would still have known something was seriously wrong. (Now possibly if AA had squawked 7700 he would have been asked to switch off that code at some point, but we don't even know from the video whether he tried it.) |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
Sam Spade writes:
If ATC fails to respond to that properly and gives the run around, the pilot should then be resourceful to get them to understand they will give him what he needs. "Mayday, mayday, mayday" is one option that hopefully should not be needed. Fortunately, in practice, ATC will bend over backwards to accommodate any aircraft with an emergency, and so will other pilots. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
He declared an emergency, but somewhere along the line the ball got
dropped. The pilot shouldn't have to plead his case and hope for the best, he's got an emergent condition to deal with and the life of his crew and passengers to worry about. When he got stick from the local controller he should have repeated his emergency declaration and done whatever he needed to do to meet that situation. A tower controller can clear the airspace of aircraft fairly expediently if they want to. If he had flamed out on a wide downwind and not made it back to the runway he'd have been crucified for "not doing everything in his power to deal with the emergency" If I were the pilot, and AA, I'd be plenty ****ed at the controller, and from what else is coming out, the FAA supervisor who makes the decisions that the local controller is not allowed to. Hopefully this won't happen again eh? Mitty wrote: On 2/23/2007 6:21 PM, Roy Smith wrote the following: If you've already told the controller you have an emergency, squawking 7700 doesn't add anything to the situation. The 7700 stuff is for when you're out of radio contact. Au contraire. With a 7700 squawk then if the emergency situation wasn't mentioned in the handoff (which it possibly wasn't) then the next controller would still have known something was seriously wrong. (Now possibly if AA had squawked 7700 he would have been asked to switch off that code at some point, but we don't even know from the video whether he tried it.) |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
Mxsmanic wrote:
Sam Spade writes: If ATC fails to respond to that properly and gives the run around, the pilot should then be resourceful to get them to understand they will give him what he needs. "Mayday, mayday, mayday" is one option that hopefully should not be needed. Fortunately, in practice, ATC will bend over backwards to accommodate any aircraft with an emergency, and so will other pilots. No **** Dick Tracy. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
All true. BTW, the handoff on the video is between Center and Approach. Center
told the pilot that he was going to request 17C from Approach and that's what he did. Apparently without mentioning the emergency. On 2/23/2007 7:25 PM, Robert Chambers wrote the following: He declared an emergency, but somewhere along the line the ball got dropped. The pilot shouldn't have to plead his case and hope for the best, he's got an emergent condition to deal with and the life of his crew and passengers to worry about. When he got stick from the local controller he should have repeated his emergency declaration and done whatever he needed to do to meet that situation. A tower controller can clear the airspace of aircraft fairly expediently if they want to. If he had flamed out on a wide downwind and not made it back to the runway he'd have been crucified for "not doing everything in his power to deal with the emergency" If I were the pilot, and AA, I'd be plenty ****ed at the controller, and from what else is coming out, the FAA supervisor who makes the decisions that the local controller is not allowed to. Hopefully this won't happen again eh? Mitty wrote: On 2/23/2007 6:21 PM, Roy Smith wrote the following: If you've already told the controller you have an emergency, squawking 7700 doesn't add anything to the situation. The 7700 stuff is for when you're out of radio contact. Au contraire. With a 7700 squawk then if the emergency situation wasn't mentioned in the handoff (which it possibly wasn't) then the next controller would still have known something was seriously wrong. (Now possibly if AA had squawked 7700 he would have been asked to switch off that code at some point, but we don't even know from the video whether he tried it.) |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
C J Campbell wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 05:41:03 -0800, Sam Spade wrote (in article ): http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/Vi...dId=122817&cat Id=104 It appears somebody forgot what pilot in command means. Actually, at least two people forgot. Matt |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 05:41:03 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote: http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/Vi...2817&catId=104 Doesn't that give you a warm fuzzy feeling? Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
Roger wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 05:41:03 -0800, Sam Spade wrote: http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/Vi...2817&catId=104 Doesn't that give you a warm fuzzy feeling? Not exactly. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Handling Characteristics of the Flight Design CTSW | John | Piloting | 9 | March 14th 07 03:38 AM |
American Flight 191 - Recovery Procedure | Rick Umali | Piloting | 17 | November 5th 06 03:35 AM |
Angel Flight fuel discounts | John Doe | Piloting | 4 | January 20th 06 01:24 PM |
Passenger attempts to hijack American Eagles flight | C J Campbell | Piloting | 5 | January 11th 04 04:04 PM |
American Safety Flight Systems seat belts -- Help! | Paul Millner | Owning | 1 | July 7th 03 10:10 PM |