ME Insurance

You motivated me to call AOPA. (I had their number handy and didn't
have Facer's.) The lady I talked to said they all use the same
underwriters, so if an agent has accurate information, they should all
have the same capability about attaining insurance.

She said

1) No one would insure my student in a Twin Comanche until he had at
least 500 hours, rating or no rating, and

2) She could put him into a Seneca or Cessna 310 with as little as
200 hours, without a rating.

So if what she said is accurate, the local insurance guy that my
student is using has provided inaccurate information. My student has
been trying to buy a Twin Comanche, and yet he may not be insurable in
that aircraft. He's also said that he couldn't get insurance without
the rating and that he couldn't get it regardless in something with
lots of horsepower like a 310.

Thank you!



On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 17:17:03 GMT, Kyler Laird
wrote:

Scott Draper writes:

Can a multi-engine student get insurance for his own ME airplane,
based on his instructor's ME time? One insurance company is saying
"no way"; they'll only insure him AFTER he get's his ME rating. I'm
wondering if this is universally true.

I bought our Aztec before I even had my Private. My partner had his
MEL though. We were both on the policy as soon as I got my ASEL.

I was just required to spend 25(?) hours dual and then 15 hours solo
in the plane before I was insured for carrying passengers.

Call Andy Facer at Facer Insurance. (It's storming here and I'm
offline so I can't look up the info.)

--kyler

It may or may not be a horsepower issue, but a combination of factors
involved with certain models. Each model has characteristics that make up
it's accident survivability profile and an accident history each it's own.
Whether high stall speeds, high or low Vmc or Vyse speeds, thin fast wings,
low stall speeds, fat high lift wings, rudder size, cabin size, cabin
structure, engine size, turbochargeing, prop rotation, pressurization,
complex fuel systems, or center of gravity issues, every twin is different.

When we were shopping for insurance for our Aztec we were told that
insurance companies look favorably on Aztecs because they have "enough"
horsepower to provide adequate single engine performance, but not "too much"
power that single engine control problems overwhelm the pilot. Our agent
told us that the Aztec premium would be less than a Apache of equal hull
value given our times and ratings. He also went through the list of
companies willing to insure "transition" pilots (moving from HP Singles to
Twins) and noted which company would insure which models with what pilot
experience levels and for what size pile of cash.

YMMV, but it sounds like you're on the right track and that the agent at the
AOPA insurance agency knows what he's talking about.

Good luck,

Jim

Scott Draper wrote:
: You motivated me to call AOPA. (I had their number handy and didn't
: have Facer's.) The lady I talked to said they all use the same
: underwriters, so if an agent has accurate information, they should all
: have the same capability about attaining insurance.

: She said

: 1) No one would insure my student in a Twin Comanche until he had at
: least 500 hours, rating or no rating, and

Two years ago, when I was looking at Twin Comanches I called a few companies
including AOPA. The only company that was willing to insure me (0 Multi time)
was Avemco. They wanted $8000/year. There were no ridiculous limits on the
policy: I needed to get a multi rating and could not carry pax until I had
25 hours solo. I could go solo with the appropriate endorsements.

It all depends on how much you are willing to pay.

--
Aaron

could not carry pax until I had 25 hours solo. I could go solo with
the appropriate endorsements.

How much total time did you have?

insurance companies look favorably on Aztecs because they have
"enough" horsepower to provide adequate single engine performance, but
not "too much" power that single engine control problems overwhelm the
pilot.

Interesting insight, thank you. I may suggest to my student that he
look at an Aztec.

Scott Draper wrote:
: could not carry pax until I had 25 hours solo. I could go solo with
: the appropriate endorsements.

: How much total time did you have?

I think I had 350 or 400 hours total at that time. I may have misread your
initial statement into "he needs 300+ hours IN TYPE before they would insure
him" instead of "he needs 300+ TOTAL HOURS before they would insure him".
If the second statement is true, perhaps he should consider a single for a
couple hundred hours.
--
Aaron C.

he needs 300+ TOTAL HOURS before they would insure him.
If the second statement is true, perhaps he should consider a single
for a couple hundred hours.

The insurance lady said he needed 500 hours TOTAL in any airplane
before they would insure him at all in the Comanche. Only 200 for
something like a Seneca or a 310.

The reason we're pushing for the twin is that the boy is airline bound
and doing this initial training in the twin will give him a good leg
up when he starts having the total time needed for a commuter.

If we're lucky, then if he sells the airplane for what he paid or
better, the training and time building will be very cheap.

Anybody know why the high requirement for the twin Comanche? -
compared to the 310?

Dave



On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:27:16 -0600, Scott Draper
wrote:

he needs 300+ TOTAL HOURS before they would insure him.
If the second statement is true, perhaps he should consider a single
for a couple hundred hours.

The insurance lady said he needed 500 hours TOTAL in any airplane
before they would insure him at all in the Comanche. Only 200 for
something like a Seneca or a 310.

The reason we're pushing for the twin is that the boy is airline bound
and doing this initial training in the twin will give him a good leg
up when he starts having the total time needed for a commuter.

If we're lucky, then if he sells the airplane for what he paid or
better, the training and time building will be very cheap.

The gear on a C-310 is taller than the twin Comanche and further to
fall which may cause more damage because you hit the ground harder.
Thus higher the cost of the insurance. LOL
It could have something to do with the accident statistics.

Having flown both a standard Twin-Comanche and the 310K model I'd expect
the difference be due to the accident statistics as others have
suggested. Personally I liked the Twin-Comanche better - it was more
challenging to stay on top of and man could it come down when you needed
it to. I think it would be difficult to fly a Hi-Penetration approach in
the 310, but the TC did it just fine.

I'd expect the insurance rates for the Twin-Comanche-CR to be lower than
the original model and lower than the 310 -- maybe along the lines of
the early Seneca -- but that's just my speculation.




-----Original Message-----
From: Dave ]
Posted At: Saturday, December 31, 2005 8:48 AM
Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
Conversation: ME Insurance
Subject: ME Insurance

Anybody know why the high requirement for the twin Comanche? -
compared to the 310?

Dave



On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:27:16 -0600, Scott Draper
wrote:

he needs 300+ TOTAL HOURS before they would insure him.
If the second statement is true, perhaps he should consider a single
for a couple hundred hours.

The insurance lady said he needed 500 hours TOTAL in any airplane
before they would insure him at all in the Comanche. Only 200 for
something like a Seneca or a 310.

The reason we're pushing for the twin is that the boy is airline
bound
and doing this initial training in the twin will give him a good leg
up when he starts having the total time needed for a commuter.

If we're lucky, then if he sells the airplane for what he paid or
better, the training and time building will be very cheap.