Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 9:13:38 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jim Hogue wrote on 1/28/2020 2:30 AM:
Hmmmmm, I am tempted to talk to the Air Avionics folk at the upcoming SSA Convention. But the last thing I need is another big big big project....

Here's smaller, related project with a quicker payoff: figure out the best ways to
use the Air Glide S for thermals, convergences, and finding wave; also, determine
what settings are needed to optimize it's performance. While you are doing this,
blog it, discuss it on the (not yet in operation) Glide S owners group, or add it
to the (not yet in operation) Glide S Operation website.

I'm not joking, because the Glide S manual barely covers the basics, and while
many of the owners use it very successfully, all that knowledge is not gathered in
one place where it's easy to access and discuss. Not only would it make the
instrument more valuable to us owners, but possibly, just maybe, it might rekindle
commercial interest in it. I'd be happy to help, and I already have stuff gleaned
from Fitch and others.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Eric,

I'm in for a Glide S user group.

Craig

I'm in for a Glide S user group.

Definitely.

In terms of opening the s/w it would be neat to know what's on the CAN bus.
That might permit just recording the IMU data and using it for what-if experiments after a flight.

On Tuesday, 28 January 2020 12:25:09 UTC+2, Jim Hogue wrote:
Does anyone know exactly what the 14 sensors are in the Air Glide ISU? I will guess:

3 axis accelerations
3 axis rates
3 axis magnetometers
Static pressure
Total pressure
Total energy probe pressure (differential, actually redundant to Static and Total if you know or are willing to compensate for the aircraft’s position errors)
Outside air temperature
GPS

Please correct me if I have guessed wrong.

You are most probably right.


OpenVario with sensor board has most of these but lacks the GPS (but is routinely connected to FLARM etc.), OAT (input hardware for a probe exists but I am unaware of if it has ever been used), and the magnetometers (I am sure a magnetometer module could be designed or an existing one adapted to plug into one of the OV’s available input ports). With a bit more work, I think the OpenVario could host all the necessary sensors.

But of course, a huge task is to create a display which will pleasingly and effectively communicate the airmass information to the pilot so he can use it effectively. This by itself is a huge challenge. There are good ideas already in use out there, but I suspect improvements could be made.

Lots of challenging and interesting work to be done. Any takers?

Cheers,
Jim J6

Well I disagree of the problem, world is full of excellent displays and coding nice graphics is not an issue. The real problem is to get the inertial platform so good that you can actually do something useful with it.

I've flown ~500 hours on mine, never been happy with it's performance as a variometer, inferior to my mechanical Winter, but the instant wind has saved me from two outlandings. It only needs to be a bit less noisy and there'd be real value in an alarm when the wind suddenly changes 30 degrees or 10kts within a few minutes.

On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 6:26:01 PM UTC+13, krasw wrote:
On Tuesday, 28 January 2020 12:25:09 UTC+2, Jim Hogue wrote:
Does anyone know exactly what the 14 sensors are in the Air Glide ISU? I will guess:

3 axis accelerations
3 axis rates
3 axis magnetometers
Static pressure
Total pressure
Total energy probe pressure (differential, actually redundant to Static and Total if you know or are willing to compensate for the aircraft’s position errors)
Outside air temperature
GPS

Please correct me if I have guessed wrong.

You are most probably right.


OpenVario with sensor board has most of these but lacks the GPS (but is routinely connected to FLARM etc.), OAT (input hardware for a probe exists but I am unaware of if it has ever been used), and the magnetometers (I am sure a magnetometer module could be designed or an existing one adapted to plug into one of the OV’s available input ports). With a bit more work, I think the OpenVario could host all the necessary sensors.

But of course, a huge task is to create a display which will pleasingly and effectively communicate the airmass information to the pilot so he can use it effectively. This by itself is a huge challenge. There are good ideas already in use out there, but I suspect improvements could be made.

Lots of challenging and interesting work to be done. Any takers?

Cheers,
Jim J6

Well I disagree of the problem, world is full of excellent displays and coding nice graphics is not an issue. The real problem is to get the inertial platform so good that you can actually do something useful with it.

Yes, you are absolutely correct that the real problem is to get the inertial platform good enough to produce useful derived information. The difficulty with the display in my mind is making a human friendly interface that gets the (novel and new, not your everyday vario) information across to the pilot in a pleasing and instantly recognizable and usable way. Maybe I am overthinking that.

Cheers,
Jim J6

Hello, everyone,

As most of you following this string are probably aware, a new group has been formed for the Air Avionics Butterfly Vario system. I suggest that all future discussion on the Butterfly be done there. It is "Butterfly Vario - Air Glide Display S" Google Group

I have bought a Butterfly Vario for my ASH-26E, looking forward to installing and using it this season.

Thanks everyone for all the great input.

Cheers,
Jim J6




On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 7:39:31 AM UTC-6, Jim Hogue wrote:
Any suggestions? Either currently available or coming in the near future (next year or so) would be ok, I am not in a rush. Prefer it would fit in one 57mm hole.

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board, and a Kobo backup) so I don’t really need any nav functions. Above all I want the best total energy and gust compensated technology available, the best to allow me to understand airmass movement while cruising across the full speed range. I want MacReady speed-to-fly function (although I use that as advisory information only, I don’t aggressively dolphin fly...). I also need climb/cruise and airmass awareness audio functionality of course, head-out-of-the-cockpit being best.

I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give, but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that also.

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jim J6

On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 05:33:09 -0800, Jim Hogue wrote:

Hello, everyone,

As most of you following this string are probably aware, a new group has
been formed for the Air Avionics Butterfly Vario system. I suggest that
all future discussion on the Butterfly be done there. It is "Butterfly
Vario - Air Glide Display S" Google Group

I have bought a Butterfly Vario for my ASH-26E, looking forward to
installing and using it this season.

Thanks everyone for all the great input.

Cheers,
Jim J6




On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 7:39:31 AM UTC-6, Jim Hogue wrote:
Any suggestions? Either currently available or coming in the near
future (next year or so) would be ok, I am not in a rush. Prefer it
would fit in one 57mm hole.

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full
on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board, and a Kobo backup) so
I don’t really need any nav functions. Above all I want the best total
energy and gust compensated technology available, the best to allow me
to understand airmass movement while cruising across the full speed
range. I want MacReady speed-to-fly function (although I use that as
advisory information only, I don’t aggressively dolphin fly...). I also
need climb/cruise and airmass awareness audio functionality of course,
head-out-of-the-cockpit being best.

I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just
pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which
gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during
powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density
altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly
better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give,
but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work
great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that
also.

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

What's its NNTP name?


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Arse and eyes??

Martin, I don't know what the NNTP name is for the Butterfly Vario group, I am new to this. I sent you a direct invitation to the group. Hope you get it....

Cheers,
Jim J6


On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 8:02:30 AM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 05:33:09 -0800, Jim Hogue wrote:

Hello, everyone,

As most of you following this string are probably aware, a new group has
been formed for the Air Avionics Butterfly Vario system. I suggest that
all future discussion on the Butterfly be done there. It is "Butterfly
Vario - Air Glide Display S" Google Group

I have bought a Butterfly Vario for my ASH-26E, looking forward to
installing and using it this season.

Thanks everyone for all the great input.

Cheers,
Jim J6






What's its NNTP name?


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Jim White wrote on 1/29/2020 7:06 AM:
Arse and eyes??

Even 40 years of soaring thousands of hours, I find most varios, and especially
the Glide S, are superior to my arse and eyes. Not in every situation, but
overall, you'd want the Glide S on the panel instead of me in the back seat.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1