Resource for choosing a plane?

"Scott Skylane" wrote:

For one thing, the TCM IO/TSIO-360 is a *six* cylinder powerplant, that
puts out the same 200 horses that Lycoming's *four* cylinder IO-360 does.
So, no, "overworking" is not an issue.

What's the number of cylinders got to do with it?

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

The PA28-235 is a great plane, but is this true in Colorado Springs?
In the summer?

Actually, yes.

My Cherokee 180 serves as a wonderful 2-place in the Midwest, but when
I visited Boulder in the summer, takeoff and climbout were less than
spectacular, and I was 200lbs under gross.

Did you lean the engine for departure?

There is a DRAMATIC difference between taking off with a properly
leaned engine (above 3000 MSL) and an engine running full rich.

Yes, I teach mountain flying in the Cherokee-180 in the Colorado
Rockys.

The Colorado Pilots Association will present the mountain flying
course in May an August this year at Centennial Airport (APA), south
of Denver.

I am available for mountain flight instruction (your airplane or
mine) any time, at your convenience.

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction/mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jeratfrii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 235 Young Eagles!

Dan Luke wrote:

"Scott Skylane" wrote:


For one thing, the TCM IO/TSIO-360 is a *six* cylinder powerplant, that
puts out the same 200 horses that Lycoming's *four* cylinder IO-360 does.
So, no, "overworking" is not an issue.


What's the number of cylinders got to do with it?

Dan,
Absolutely nothing, which was my point in responding to Honeck's
assertion that the TCM 360 is a *four* cylinder engine with a reputation
of being "pushed too hard"(his words).

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054

Scott Skylane wrote:

Absolutely nothing, which was my point in responding to Honeck's
assertion that the TCM 360 is a *four* cylinder engine with a reputation
of being "pushed too hard"(his words).

Regardless of the number of cylinders, Jay said it is pushed too hard in
comparison to the O-540. Which puts out 235 hp.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

On 4-Jan-2006, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

It's common to think that the Turbo Dakota used a turbo-charged version of
the six-cylinder O-540 that is standard in all other PA28-235/236s.
Unfortunately, Piper opted to use the Continental TSIO-360 -- a
four-cylinder engine -- and it has been much maligned as being an engine
that is "pushed too hard" and thus doesn't last long.


Actually, the Continental TSIO-360 is a 6 cyl engine. Otherwise, I think
Jay's comments are accurate. The Turbo Dakota is really much more a fixed
gear version of the Turbo Arrow. (Same engine, airframe, similar useful
load, but quite a bit slower due to the fixed gear.)

From the OP's list of desired characteristics, I'd have to say that a Turbo
Arrow might be the "obvious" choice. Other models might fit the mission
(and his body size/shape) better, but not within his $100K budget. Some
owners have had issues with the TSIO-360, but it works better on the T-Arrow
than the T-Dakota because of better cooling (due to higher airspeed).
Another factor is that T-Dakotas are rare, but T-Arrows were built in large
numbers in the 1977-80 time frame, and are quite plentiful on the used
market.

As to questions of added costs associated with retractable gear and CS prop:
RG will probably end up costing $200-300 extra per year for hull insurance.
Based on our experience (normally aspirated 1979 Arrow IV) extra
maintenance averages about $250/year. However, we save about $1500 per year
in fuel costs (flying 150 hrs), compared to similar performance FG aircraft
(e.g. C-182, Dakota). The CS prop probably costs about $1.50-2.00/hr in
extra maintenance costs (largely the cost of overhaul). However, it is a
must for turbocharged aircraft.
--
-Elliott Drucker

For one thing, the TCM IO/TSIO-360 is a *six* cylinder powerplant,

Whoops. I was mistaking it for the Lycoming O-360.

My bad.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Regardless of the number of cylinders, Jay said it is pushed too hard in
comparison to the O-540. Which puts out 235 hp.

Actually, I was repeating what the Cherokee 235/236 user's group says about
that bird. I've got no personal experience with the Turbo Dakota.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I have that book on backorder from Amazon! Should have it in a week or two
(so they say)....

Thanks!

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:QuIuf.2936$If.451@trnddc05...
Douglas Paterson wrote:

What I'd really like to find is some sort of direct comparison tool--like
you find in an auto magazine, say--such as a table with columns listing
features, with added commentary on each model's pros and cons. From
reading this group, I've found a couple of browsing tools, but nothing
that really hits the mark. Suggestions?

I know of nothing out there. What I did when I was shopping for my first
aircraft was to buy a copy of Bill Clarke's "The Illustrated Buyer's Guide
to Used Airplanes" and make lists of possible candidates. You should be
able to throw together a table or spreadsheet of possibilities. There
won't be too many singles that fit all of your conditions.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Combining my response to several posters, all with great information. I'm
"new" here, yet this group is already giving me a mile when I asked for an
inch--thanks everyone for the advice! I've responded individually to a
couple of posters who touched on some points I have a specific follow-up
about, but I appreciate ALL of the responses.

Careful--you guys keep being nice to me, I may stick around....
--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

wrote in message ...
The PA28-235 is a great plane, but is this true in Colorado Springs?
In the summer?

Actually, yes.

My Cherokee 180 serves as a wonderful 2-place in the Midwest, but when
I visited Boulder in the summer, takeoff and climbout were less than
spectacular, and I was 200lbs under gross.

Did you lean the engine for departure?

There is a DRAMATIC difference between taking off with a properly
leaned engine (above 3000 MSL) and an engine running full rich.

Yes, I teach mountain flying in the Cherokee-180 in the Colorado
Rockys.

The Colorado Pilots Association will present the mountain flying
course in May an August this year at Centennial Airport (APA), south
of Denver.

I am available for mountain flight instruction (your airplane or
mine) any time, at your convenience.

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction/mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jeratfrii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 235 Young Eagles!

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...
[snip]
You are correct to be more concerned about op costs than acquisition
costs. Minus cost of money, you will get your acquisition costs back
when you sell.

My thoughts exactly--that's why my $100K figure is "soft," more of a comfort
number than anything else.

Factoryengines.com lists an
overhaul on a TIO540 engine (for the Turbo Lance) at $40k.

Now there's a number that kinda scares me--that's at least twice the amount
of any overhaul estimates I've seen in my (admittedly limited) reading. Is
that a function of the turbo??

As I said, my "requirements" are all written in Jell-O. I'm *just* getting
started--really, this discussion is the most in-depth I've gotten so far.
If turbo is the only way I can get the heavy lift I want from my
high-altitude location, but it's prohibitively expensive, well, I may have
to revise my requirements.... That goes for everything I listed in my
original post.... That Cherokee 140 for $25K is looking better and better
at this point!!

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)