Best Place to Learn to Fly?

On Sat, 21 May 2005 07:54:40 -0400, "Gary Drescher"
wrote:

somewhere that has more interesting weather (the Northeast, for example), so
you can encounter a variety of weather conditions during your training.

Just as the poster from Oregon worried that you don't get enough radio
practice if you learn in the boonies, the wx is certainly a factor for
someone who is going to be doing his flying in Britain. The weather in
AZ or SOCAL is not much preparation for that.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

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On Sat, 21 May 2005 12:36:37 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:

Get a place to live, and find some kind of simple job. You apparently won't
need the money, but you will need something to keep you occupied in your
non-flying time. You shouldn't fly all the time - you need breaks to allow
the knowledge to settle in. Fly about 3 times a week, and hang around the
field some of the other time, but not all the time. You'll learn a lot
there, too.

Evidently he brings his own job with him. It would be a great system.
I have twice taken a week of intensive training, two lessons a day,
and it was really punishing for me (I started flying at 68). I think
three 90-minute lessons a week would be ideal.

As for hanging about the airport, that suggests choosing a small one.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

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"Ben Hallert" wrote in message ups.com...
Southern California.


50K a year and So. Cal does not mix...

Blanche Cohen wrote:

As sunny and warm as SoCal and Florida....both are very expensive. But
then, flying is expensive, all things considered. Florida is
unbelievably humid (and this coming from someone who lived in Houston, TX
for 7 years!) and has hurricanes. Just saw on the news that New Piper
is finally back into full production, after almost a year.

Yeah -- try Fort Collins.

[This has been an unpaid, non-political announcement]


Dunno about SoCal, but I lived in Florida for 9 years and to my way of
thinking, it's not the best place. Yes you avoid winter blizzards and cold
weather. But on the other hand, it rains right around 3 pm every day -
especially in the summer - and there's tornados in addition to the
hurricanes. Bad thunderstorms to.

"Hot and humid" for me, is a Bad Thing(tm), but that's a personal choice.

--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

ShawnD2112 wrote:


If I had to do it all over again, I'd learn in a Cub or a Taylorcraft at a
little farm strip in the middle of nowhere, at least until time for my
QXC, then I'd move into a 152 with all the kit and learn how to talk to
people.

Hi Shawn,

I am in the middle of getting my taildragger endorsement - in a 1944 J-3
Cub. This baby was built for the Army and has the birdcage for the back
seat - great visibility. I find it outrageous fun. I got my PPL with 152's
and moved to Warriors after that. But this...so much more fun, more
challenging, in it's own way.

Doing this makes me wonder, at times, if students would be better off
starting out in something like a J-3. I think learning TD's makes me a much
better pilot..because it's a J-3 with a narrower envelope than even a 152
or a Warrior; because TD flying takes "feel" - especially since you can't
always see what few instruments you have with a CFI in front...and what few
you have don't include things like Turn and Bank and Artificial Horizons or
vert speed, etc. so, for example, your eyes have to be on the horizon, in
turns.

All that's a benefit, as I say, but it might extend time to solo out, and
these days people like to progress quickly. So starting students out in
TD's might not be best overall. It might add too many complications at the
start. But oftentimes I wonder if it would be worth it.

--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

I kind of figured you'd get lots of divers opinions about that
subject, and I was right. Thing is, they are all right too, in their own
way. I won't try and tell you where the "Best Place" is, but I'll tell you
my experience.
I did all my primary training out of Inyokern (IYK) near the
northern boundaries of California's share of the Mojave Desert. The eastern
face of the Sierra Madre towers several thousand feet above the airport's
three runways. Occasionally the winds whip up from the S and SW with enough
force to sandblast paint. In the summer, temperatures can exceed 120 F on
the runway surface. Winter temperatures plummet into the teens every winter
and every couple of years the snow will pile up several inches on the
runway. Thermals are numerous and bounce aircraft every which way,
especially on short final. IYK is imbedded deep inside Special Use Airspace
and inside one MOA. R-2505 is so close to the airport that runway 20
requires right traffic to remain clear.
I am particularly glad I did my primary at IYK because, as my
instructor told me, "If you can learn to fly here, you can fly anywhere!"
That was while I was crabbing down a runway, flying into a 30+K, 90-degree
crosswind. We did another pass a few minutes later in a slip. None of that
was required in the PTS, Bob wanted me to learn how to handle crosswinds.
Was that the best place to learn to fly? It was for me. Density
altitude was a fact of life, sometimes even in the winter, not a text book
drill. Cross winds and turbulence, the same. Learning to navigate SUA was a
reality. Cross-country over mountain ridges an absolute necessity.
Go learn to fly somewhere where the air is silky, the ground is flat
to the horizon in every direction, and the winds hardly get above a
breeze -- if you want to. But if you want to experience reality, find a
place like IYK.

In article . com,
"Ben Hallert" wrote:

Southern California. Weather has a huge effect on how often you can
fly. I trained at SMO Santa Monica and was able to fly almost every
day. Now I live in Oregon, and there are nowhere near as many
opportunities.

SoCal all the way. Plus, you get to learn in a busy airspace that'll
prepare you to fly almost anywhere. It's a great learning environment.


Or somewhere in the San Joaquin Valley or lower Sierra foothills, like
Fresno, Sacramento, Stockton, or further north or south of those.

Maybe not quite as good weather, but pretty darn good. Probably
significantly lower cost. Increasingly good job opportunities these
days.

And easy access to both San Francisco and SoCal area attractions (via
either wings or wheels) when you want them -- plus Yosemite, Tahoe,
Carmel, the Delta, the Sierra, Shasta, etc.

Or Reno area: more remote from some of these attractions, but surely
cheaper, and steadily becoming a more interesting place.

But I have no idea where the best flight training options (instructors,
FBOs) would be found in any of those regions.

Ben,
I think there's a valid point in what you're saying. Lack of confidence
keeps people from really going out and experiencing things they've learned
about, and that needs to be overcome.

What it points to for me is that maybe there ought to be two phases to
training, more distinct than they are now. There's the flying part, (Cub,
farmstrip, stick and rudder) and there's the aviation part (radios, nav
aids, ATC, other officialdom). Many of the pilots I know are perfectly
comfortable going into Class D airspace but would by absolutely useless in
anything other than near perfect conditions and enormous runways - they can
aviate but they can't fly. I learned at Scott AFB, mixing it up with C-9s,
helos, A-10s and anything else that came in transient. Every movement was
with full ATC. I could handle all that stuff. But I didn't learn how to
really fly an airplane until I got into a Cub group and spent hours in the
pattern learning how to really handle the machine.

My point, I guess, is that radio skills and aviation confidence are
necessary, but I'd rather see someone learn how to fly the airplane properly
before being distracted with the other things too early in training. But,
that's just how I see it from the perspective of a 400 hour PPL, so that's
all the value the opinion has. I guess it's a bit like learning to drive.
Your old man probably took you to an enormous parking lot somewhere first so
you could learn how to work the pedals and turn the car without hitting
anything. Later he took you out on the streets where you had to deal with
traffic lights, signs, and other drivers.

Shawn

"Ben Hallert" wrote in message
oups.com...
Some great points Shawn, but I wonder if it's that clear cut. I now
live in Oregon where most people learn basically how you described.
Something that's becoming increasingly clear is that the pilots around
here really don't like using the radio. They get uncomfortable talking
to controllers, and talk about how they never file VFR flight plans,
use Flight Following, or any of that.

The other day, I flew to Portland. When I mentioned where I was going,
all the guys in the lounge looked both interested and nervous, and a
couple of them made comments to the effect of how they don't feel
comfortable in controlled space (presumably class D-). I've heard
another pilot refer to class C as his personal class B.

Where I learned, I didn't have a choice but to pick up the radio stuff,
and it took hardly any time. I don't think I missed out on learning
any flying basics, and the added load during training with the
instructor onboard helped me learn important cockpit resource
management. I have a feeling that people who learn in the boonies
might be at disadvantage when entering stricter airspace. Not because
they are worse pilots, but because they're having to spend brainpower
figuring out/using unfamiliar radio procedures while navigating in a
high traffic, unfamiliar environment. I had that, but I learned with
an instructor in the right seat to be my net until I had it down pat.

I mentioned that I had transitioned class bravo down in SoCal, and only
one other guy at the lounge had done that, and it was this alien,
exciting thing for them to hear about. These guys are way better
pilots then I am, but high traffic/class bcd airspace intimidates them,
and that's just not right.

Exactly, Jim, and that's how I learned as well. Only after gaining some
experience (and, to be fair, deciding that spam-can cross country flying
wasn't what I wanted to do) did I start to form this view. Not appropriate
for someone looking to really go places in airplanes or a
commercial-soon-to-be, maybe, but for my style of flying it would be very
suitable.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
. uk...
See, I actually disagree with the idea about learning in busy airspace.
Learn to fly the airplane first, then learn about aviation later.
Granted
you have to do all that to get a PPL but the noise and distraction of
radios, other traffic, VORs and all that jazz really distract from the
basics of stick and rudder skills and pilotage.

Well, the instructor could be doing most of the radio work for the
beginning
flights, and you would be listening in, learning. When the instructor
thought you were more comfortable, you could start doing the radio work.

It must work, since tons of people have done it that way. But, ....
Different strokes for different folks, makes the world go round.
--
Jim in NC

That's a very good, point, Dan. Hell, I didn't know you could fly in the
rain until I moved here. Didn't really understand what showers were or that
you could fly through or around them. Totally opened up my flying when I
moved here!

This whole discussion just proves that point that the PPL is just a license
to learn because there is simply so much that can't be covered during
training but that is very relevant to flying. Personally, I felt too
inexperienced to actually have a ticket when I got it, but my instructor and
examiner obviously thought otherwise. They were right, as it turned out.

Shawn
"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 May 2005 07:54:40 -0400, "Gary Drescher"
wrote:

somewhere that has more interesting weather (the Northeast, for example),
so
you can encounter a variety of weather conditions during your training.

Just as the poster from Oregon worried that you don't get enough radio
practice if you learn in the boonies, the wx is certainly a factor for
someone who is going to be doing his flying in Britain. The weather in
AZ or SOCAL is not much preparation for that.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com