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#1
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bulding a kitplane maybe Van's RV9A --- a good idea ?????
Chris,
I have helped build fiberglass, tube and fabric, wood and fiberglass, and all aluminum kits and "plans built" aircraft. Regardless of the construction method there is one thing that stands out about the process of "home-building" and that is Commitment. Commitment, of course, means emotional and mental dedication. However, it also means a financial and time investment. When it comes to designs that are "cross-country cruisers" there is a financial advantage in building your own aircraft if you consider the performance to expense ratio between the cost of the home-built and the cost of a relatively new "factory" aircraft. If you are going to use the aircraft for just hopping around a local area in search of the perfect $100 breakfast or lunch, then there are times when an investment in an older factory produced aircraft might cost less than the investment in one of the higher performance kits. The RV-9/9A with the least expensive engine still out-performs a C-150/152, but may cost more to build than the purchase of an older model 2-seater. I have assisted with the construction of three of Van's designs. The first was an RV-3 and that was before he was using CNC processes and most folks were still building their own spars. At that time I could have given you a list of "gripes." However, the RV-6A and the RV-8 kits I have been/am involved with are amazing for the quality of the kit and the documentation. Both of the latter aircraft were ordered as "fast-build" (a relative term) kits and the things came out of the crates looking like airplanes already and the cost differential between the basic kit and fast-build was minimal. How minimal becomes more apparent as you start logging your actual building hours. Hours. If you are single, living alone, and don't need to hold down an actual job, building the aircraft is strictly YOUR project. If you have any vocational commitments or family commitments, then the project is actually a group affair. Even if other members of your family don't get involved in the actual construction process, their support (and an understanding of our particular obsession) is necessary if the process is going to be a "happy" experience. Maybe you are naturally a very "balanced" person, however most of the folks I know really immersed themselves in the project for the first few months after receiving their kits. The folks who actually were able to "keep a happy home", make steady progress without big gaps in activity, and finish their kits in a reasonable time eventually figured out that it was a good idea to "do a little bit each and every day" rather than try to maintain a frantic pace at the expense of the rest of their lives. Life can throw curves at you that can slow or stop progress on your aircraft. In the worse case, you may have to sell what you have. In this case, having one of the Van's design kits means that it is much easier to sell (without a big financial loss) your project. Even if you order a "fast build" kit there is still a ton of physical work to do and a lot of time -and money- will be spent on obtaining all of the "system" components. The engine and instrument panel/electronics can be ordered so complete that they are almost "drop ins" . However, buying that level of completeness can really put a serious pinch on your purse. If you have the budget to do that - great - but many folks need to space out the purchase of all of that stuff and that means planning and searching time. It has been my personal experience that spending the money to buy everything (including the "optional" stuff) on Van's tool list is a very good idea. Building an aircraft can be so time consuming that you tend to trade current PIC time for building time. Even though the RV-9/9A is designed to make the transition from a light GA aircraft into something with a little (lots more with a Lyc 360) performance improvement an easy process - make the time to stay current. Along the entire process, you will need to keep the people at the Luftfahrt-Bundesamt happy. I know that this didn't give you the "negatives" about the Van's designs you asked for, but your final statement of "P.S. Maybe I only hope that somebody prevent me from doing a homebuilt." indicated you were still uncommitted and might benefit from some additional "gray hair" information. If you go into a project like this with your eyes open and a strong commitment, then flying an aircraft you have built with your own hands is an incredibly satisfying experience. Best of luck, J "Christoph Brehm" wrote in message ... Hello all ! Since some month I studied literature and looking at websides (EAA, FAA, Buildersides) about homebuilding a plane, a lot of information out there an something hardly to understand if you are the first time in this stuff. But at the end of that process I decided that building a plane could be the right way to get a new plane with good performance low maintenance cost and so on. The next step was to decide which kit is the best for me, I think there are more then 750 different kits on the market and it is not easy to find the right one. After reading some good information about decsion-making I started from the beginning and than I decided a kitplane from Van's aircraft could be the right one for me. Therefore in the last day's I spent a lot of time reading all information about Van's aicraft I could get mostly from the internet and from buildersides ( I also checked the NTSB for Information) because here in europe you are not able to get magzines about kitplanes with maybe some more objektive information. There are a lot of very good RV buildersides with many pictures and text about costs time and tipps. But after a while I wondered a bit because there is nearly nothing bad to read about Van's aicraft kitplanes on these sides. Everything is matching good, not really a problem with the construction planes or manuals, seems always easy to build, fly always with excelent performance and so on. All those sides are sponsored by Van's ?? I can't belive that ?!!? No information out there about people wo kicked the whole crap in a corner, because nothing fit's at all, all parts are skew, not enough information in the manual, to difficult to build for a non aircraft mechanic ?!?!? Don't missunderstand me ! from the information I have I like these aircrafts from Van's and the way you have to build them, the material and so on. But there must be something bad about them out there ????? Is there anybody who could give me some objektive information maybe about the RV9A or the Van's Kitplanes at all ????? I would be very thankful about those information kind regards and thanks a lot in advance Chris P.S. Maybe I only hope that somebody prevent me from doing a homebuilt ;-) |
#2
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Hello !
Many thanks for that absolute excellent and well-gounded statement ! Ithink this will help me more in decision making about homebuilding than all the stuff I read before ! Again many thanks kind regards Chris Flightdeck schrieb: Chris, I have helped build fiberglass, tube and fabric, wood and fiberglass, and all aluminum kits and "plans built" aircraft. Regardless of the construction method there is one thing that stands out about the process of "home-building" and that is Commitment. Commitment, of course, means emotional and mental dedication. However, it also means a financial and time investment. When it comes to designs that are "cross-country cruisers" there is a financial advantage in building your own aircraft if you consider the performance to expense ratio between the cost of the home-built and the cost of a relatively new "factory" aircraft. If you are going to use the aircraft for just hopping around a local area in search of the perfect $100 breakfast or lunch, then there are times when an investment in an older factory produced aircraft might cost less than the investment in one of the higher performance kits. The RV-9/9A with the least expensive engine still out-performs a C-150/152, but may cost more to build than the purchase of an older model 2-seater. I have assisted with the construction of three of Van's designs. The first was an RV-3 and that was before he was using CNC processes and most folks were still building their own spars. At that time I could have given you a list of "gripes." However, the RV-6A and the RV-8 kits I have been/am involved with are amazing for the quality of the kit and the documentation. Both of the latter aircraft were ordered as "fast-build" (a relative term) kits and the things came out of the crates looking like airplanes already and the cost differential between the basic kit and fast-build was minimal. How minimal becomes more apparent as you start logging your actual building hours. Hours. If you are single, living alone, and don't need to hold down an actual job, building the aircraft is strictly YOUR project. If you have any vocational commitments or family commitments, then the project is actually a group affair. Even if other members of your family don't get involved in the actual construction process, their support (and an understanding of our particular obsession) is necessary if the process is going to be a "happy" experience. Maybe you are naturally a very "balanced" person, however most of the folks I know really immersed themselves in the project for the first few months after receiving their kits. The folks who actually were able to "keep a happy home", make steady progress without big gaps in activity, and finish their kits in a reasonable time eventually figured out that it was a good idea to "do a little bit each and every day" rather than try to maintain a frantic pace at the expense of the rest of their lives. Life can throw curves at you that can slow or stop progress on your aircraft. In the worse case, you may have to sell what you have. In this case, having one of the Van's design kits means that it is much easier to sell (without a big financial loss) your project. Even if you order a "fast build" kit there is still a ton of physical work to do and a lot of time -and money- will be spent on obtaining all of the "system" components. The engine and instrument panel/electronics can be ordered so complete that they are almost "drop ins" . However, buying that level of completeness can really put a serious pinch on your purse. If you have the budget to do that - great - but many folks need to space out the purchase of all of that stuff and that means planning and searching time. It has been my personal experience that spending the money to buy everything (including the "optional" stuff) on Van's tool list is a very good idea. Building an aircraft can be so time consuming that you tend to trade current PIC time for building time. Even though the RV-9/9A is designed to make the transition from a light GA aircraft into something with a little (lots more with a Lyc 360) performance improvement an easy process - make the time to stay current. Along the entire process, you will need to keep the people at the Luftfahrt-Bundesamt happy. I know that this didn't give you the "negatives" about the Van's designs you asked for, but your final statement of "P.S. Maybe I only hope that somebody prevent me from doing a homebuilt." indicated you were still uncommitted and might benefit from some additional "gray hair" information. If you go into a project like this with your eyes open and a strong commitment, then flying an aircraft you have built with your own hands is an incredibly satisfying experience. Best of luck, J "Christoph Brehm" wrote in message ... Hello all ! Since some month I studied literature and looking at websides (EAA, FAA, Buildersides) about homebuilding a plane, a lot of information out there an something hardly to understand if you are the first time in this stuff. But at the end of that process I decided that building a plane could be the right way to get a new plane with good performance low maintenance cost and so on. The next step was to decide which kit is the best for me, I think there are more then 750 different kits on the market and it is not easy to find the right one. After reading some good information about decsion-making I started from the beginning and than I decided a kitplane from Van's aircraft could be the right one for me. Therefore in the last day's I spent a lot of time reading all information about Van's aicraft I could get mostly from the internet and from buildersides ( I also checked the NTSB for Information) because here in europe you are not able to get magzines about kitplanes with maybe some more objektive information. There are a lot of very good RV buildersides with many pictures and text about costs time and tipps. But after a while I wondered a bit because there is nearly nothing bad to read about Van's aicraft kitplanes on these sides. Everything is matching good, not really a problem with the construction planes or manuals, seems always easy to build, fly always with excelent performance and so on. All those sides are sponsored by Van's ?? I can't belive that ?!!? No information out there about people wo kicked the whole crap in a corner, because nothing fit's at all, all parts are skew, not enough information in the manual, to difficult to build for a non aircraft mechanic ?!?!? Don't missunderstand me ! from the information I have I like these aircrafts from Van's and the way you have to build them, the material and so on. But there must be something bad about them out there ????? Is there anybody who could give me some objektive information maybe about the RV9A or the Van's Kitplanes at all ????? I would be very thankful about those information kind regards and thanks a lot in advance Chris P.S. Maybe I only hope that somebody prevent me from doing a homebuilt ;-) |
#3
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Building your own aircraft is a great thing to do if you have the time and your
not in a big hurry to fly , as in my case I`ve gone through the same thing that your doing and as of right now I`m still up in the air about it , the way things keep going by the time I build a craft get engi9nes and all that stuff on my budget , I can`t afford one but I m still looking and maybe I`ll find what wi9ll fit me and my wallet but I`m also looking into buying a store bought plane again it has to do with time and money that`s all the help I can be because I`m still just a confussed as you ok but keep the faith see ya Charlie |
#4
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On 06 Sep 2003 06:59 PM, Jerry Springer posted the following:
RAMBLER444 wrote: Building your own aircraft is a great thing to do if you have the time and your not in a big hurry to fly , as in my case I`ve gone through the same thing that your doing and as of right now I`m still up in the air about it , the way things keep going by the time I build a craft get engi9nes and all that stuff on my budget , I can`t afford one but I m still looking and maybe I`ll find what wi9ll fit me and my wallet but I`m also looking into buying a store bought plane again it has to do with time and money that`s all the help I can be because I`m still just a confussed as you ok but keep the faith see ya Charlie If I had waited to have everything perfect and all the ducks lined up in a row before starting to build my RV-6 I would have never started it or even finished it. If you want to build an airplane you well figure it out, but there is never a right time to start building. The one good thing about some of the popular kits is the fact that you can buy them a kit at a time and spread the financial part of it out. The time to start building an airplane is right now. I started mine knowing full well that there would be interruptions, but I'm that much farther along than I would be if I had waited. Since I am building from plans, I didn't have a lot of parts to store, just a few boxes of wing ribs and some steel parts. My total materials investment so far is probably way less than $1000. One nice thing is that during the period when I couldn't build, kits for the Bearhawk became available, so I can accelerate the project rapidly should I feel the need. I probably won't since I am having a lot of fun scratch building. ---------------------------------------------------- Del Rawlins- Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email. Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/ |
#5
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In article et, Jerry
Springer writes: If I had waited to have everything perfect and all the ducks lined up in a row before starting to build my RV-6 I would have never started it or even finished it. If you want to build an airplane you well figure it out, but there is never a right time to start building. The one good thing about some of the popular kits is the fact that you can buy them a kit at a time and spread the financial part of it out. Jerry First flight on my RV-6 July 14,1989 Sort of like having kids, if you wait until you can afford them it will be too late and you will be over the hill. Building is a big, long term project so get started and for the most part, finance as you go. Bob Reed www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site) KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress.... "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!" (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman) |
#6
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#7
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In article ,
(Snowbird) writes: Sort of like having kids, if you wait until you can afford them it will be too late and you will be over the hill. Oh, hush Sydney (OTH parent of 3 yo) Gee, did I hit a nerve? Believe, it is the voice of experience and the reason I only have one child, although I tell everybody that I stopped with one because the first one was perfect and I didn't want to spoil my record. Bob Reed www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site) KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress.... "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!" (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman) |
#9
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Snowbird wrote: osite (RobertR237) wrote in message ... In article , (Snowbird) writes: Sort of like having kids, if you wait until you can afford them it will be too late and you will be over the hill. Oh, hush Sydney (OTH parent of 3 yo) Gee, did I hit a nerve? No, kinda the contrary. We waited to have a child until we felt comfortable financially, and I *am* the lucky parent of a wonderful child. It was *not* too late, that's the point. Yes, we could have had trouble we might not have had when we were younger, and yes, it was harder on me physically than it would have been when I was younger. OTOH, younger parents who are struggling financially and/or trying to grow up emotionally and work things out with a spouse, have different troubles and they're not necessarily pretty either. Robert, I take your essential point to be something like, "if it's something you really really want, plane...kid... whatever...there will never be a Perfect Time so just consider your priorities carefully and if that's what you really want, Go For It." And if I've distilled it correctly, I pretty much agree. But I really dislike hearing "if you don't do it now, it will be too late", because IME one way and another it's usually not true. So if it's honestly NOT a top priority for one or another reason, I think it's important to say: DON'T rush into it...plane...kid. Because chances are good when it's the right time for YOU, and your other ducks are more or less in a row, it can still happen. I have NEVER heard a person that has built and flown their own airplane say "I wish I had waited longer before building my airplane." Everyone of them say "I wish I had started when I first considered building an airplane." If you want to build get started now. Jerry Sydney (born moderate -- can usually get both sides of an argument mad at me) |
#10
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Jerry Springer wrote:
I have NEVER heard a person that has built and flown their own airplane say "I wish I had waited longer before building my airplane." Everyone of them say "I wish I had started when I first considered building an airplane." If you want to build get started now. Jerry Well, I have to pick on your methodology here. I imagine that your sample is representative of those who build and fly planes. But look at the completion statistics on kits, and ask some of those who did not complete them if they wish they had waited until circumstances were better for them. -- Alex Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email. |
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