A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Military Aviation
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

US Air Force survival gun?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old April 26th 04, 04:25 AM
robert arndt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Despite your blatant anti American feelings several American companies are
capable of making precision firearmes and do.


First of all I don't have blatant Anti-American feelings. What I
object to is the unilateral dismissal of German technology in relation
to the majority of the weapon systems used by the US Armed Forces from
the late '40s to present.
I also can't stand "USA-Number-One" types that cannot learn from
history or from 9/11.
Right now, the US (lone Superpower), is getting its ass kicked in Iraq
by a bunch of armed thugs and Islamic zealots that can't stand the
democratization of Iraq. I support our troops and decision to invade
Iraq but I don't like the current Administrative policies that tie our
troops hands behind their backs in a Vietnam-like situation that makes
the war on terrorism all the more unpopular at home. You are older
than me so you should recognize that fact.
And you cannot ever call me un-American because I am a solid
conservative Republican that votes along party lines. President Bush
is MY President that I voted for and for whom I will vote AGAIN no
matter what happens. I also support the Israelis and have for over a
decade financially... so much for your fascist Nazi label of me.
I just like war history, military arms of all sorts, and especially
like Reich technology. This may shock the hell out of you but a lot of
AMERICANS like German technology and war history. All my friends do
and even my buddy in the SFs admits he wishes he had some of the
current German arms where he is at (somewhere in the Mideast).
I just make "jabs" at you guys because you give me a hard time. Do you
really think I care that much about a Luftwaffe Drilling as a survival
gun? I don't (although the Drillings by themselves are excellent
weapons).

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


(can't wait for the Obituary that reads: Dan, U.S. Air Force,
expired)!


I guess if you can't wait you will have to find something else to occupy your
time. Someday I will die as will you. Perhaps you will out live me and perhaps
you won't.


Relax Dan, it was only a joke... that's why I put the exclamation mark
at the end and not a period. It was a poke at your SIG. Gosh...

Rob

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

  #96  
Old April 26th 04, 03:48 PM
Fred the Red Shirt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"John Keeney" wrote in message ...
"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message
om...
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message

...

Again, for survival after escaping from an unflyable aircraft? The idea

is
"not to die of exposure, hunger or angry wildlife", not "stand off all

of 3
Shock Army singlehandedly". Every ounce of grenades, heavy-calibre
ammunition, et cetera you carry is an ounce less of food, water, radio
beacon, spare batteries, flares, dye markers and other items that might
actually improve your chances of living until rescue.


Respectfully, doesn't that depend on what you are most likely to need
to do in order to survive?

WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind
enemy lines in time of war.


A lone downed airman -or lone downed crew for that matter- isn't
in a position to get into fire fights: there's just no way they can have
brought enough fire power with them. Not getting captured means
stealth and recovery. Survival means not ****ing off the more heavily
armed people around you, water, shelter in bad weather and food.
In that order.

A good knife can be used stealthily in making shelter, some places
getting water and food. Perhaps a gun with subsonic ammo would
be sufficiently comforting and useful for small game in a long term
situation to be worth while.


Which has some clear implications IRT guns. It would seem that
shooting game for food would be a bad idea as gunshots can attract
unwanted attention. OTOH, shooting a lone person who has spotted
you and is running to report your presence to the military is
probably worth the risk.

I would think that gathering plants and insects for food would
be highly prefereable to hunting game with a firearm. The
probability of success is higher and for the most part you can eat
as you gather, no need to gut, skin, dress or cook a grub or cattail
root.

In wartime, if you include a gun in the survival kit it seems it
ought to be the sort useful for shooting humans because it would
be inadvisable to shoot anything else.

When I was in High School we had a visit from a US Army Helicopter
pilot who had been shot down twice in Vietnam. He said that both
times when he was rescued he was running pretty hard to keep ahead
of the VC. Obviously he wasn't going to take time to hunt for
food, but a good rifle might have helped to keep the VC at a
distance.

In the wilderness, defending oneself against wild animals is pretty
much a non-issue unless you go out of your way to harrass a moose or
something. OTOH, in peacetime you will most likely be staying
near the crash site waiting for rescue so hunting is more practical.

--

FF
  #98  
Old April 26th 04, 10:21 PM
SteveM8597
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Someone ought to tell the military survival school instructors, then,
because
they are teaching people the wrong stuff.


How so? Don't they teach both?


One teachs escape and evasion the other teaches living off the land long enough
to get picked up, ie first aid, finding making shelter, finding food and water,
comunicating and signalling, and orienteering. There isn't much emphasis on
being the great white meat hunter, mostly just acknowledgement that you can do
things like snare or trap. The SERE training is how to keep from being caught
and if caught, how to conduct yourself and survive. I don't remember any
mention of the use of firearms in the four I went through, land, water, jungle,
and arctic.

I also was an avid backpacker and put survival on my trips in the Sierra,
Bitterroots, and Wind River in somewhat of a different category relative to
techniques and objectives..

Steve
  #99  
Old April 26th 04, 10:30 PM
Michael Wise
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
"Gord Beaman" ) wrote:

WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind
enemy lines in time of war.


Someone ought to tell the military survival school instructors, then,
because
they are teaching people the wrong stuff.


How so? Don't they teach both?


I'm sure that they must...I've had numerous military 'survival
school' courses, Arctic, Winter-bush, Summer, Summer-bush,
Sea-survival. None of them even mentioned the Enemy (other than
panic is your enemy)



In the USN all aircrew have to go through SERE. I'm sure the USAF
probably has something similar. At least when I was in, the mandatory
survival training (beyond extensive water survival training) was about
week in the Eglin AFB wilderness (no adversaries), a few days in the
desert (north of Calexico), and about a week in the semi-forested Warner
Springs (Calif) area training in survival in combat situations (the last
few days with "enemies."

There were also jungle survival (in the PI) and cold weather training
(in Washington), but those weren't mandatory. What was mandatory is that
all aircrews go through SERE; train to survive while evading as well as
spend time as a "prisoner."



--Mike
  #100  
Old April 26th 04, 10:31 PM
SteveM8597
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

USAFland survival school consisted of 1 - 2 weeks in evasion, resistance, and
escape training, and a week total on wilderness survival techniques. The week
was spent in class and on a four day camp/trek experience The trek included
evading the "enemy" and spending time with . If you got captured, you
supposedly went back the the beginning of the trek and started over. The trek
was rigorous enough that people died from time to time. The "campout" was
mostly shelter building, familiarization with edible vegetation, and butchering
and cooking a white domestic bunny in the event you were able to trap or snare
some meat. The emphasis was on non firearm use because even if you had
firearms, you'r eventually run out of ammo.

The jungle and arctic schools also spent some time on edible veggies and
shelter. In my mind, the majority of time was focused on not getting caught
or lost, and conduct it you were caught, not living off the land.

Steve



WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind
enemy lines in time of war.


Someone ought to tell the military survival school instructors, then,

because
they are teaching people the wrong stuff.


How so? Don't they teach both?


I'm sure that they must...I've had numerous military 'survival
school' courses, Arctic, Winter-bush, Summer, Summer-bush,
Sea-survival. None of them even mentioned the Enemy (other than
panic is your enemy)
--

-Gord.









 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Boeing Boondoggle Larry Dighera Military Aviation 77 September 15th 04 02:39 AM
Highest-Ranking Black Air Force General Credits Success to Hard Work Otis Willie Military Aviation 0 February 11th 04 12:06 AM
us air force us air force academy us air force bases air force museum us us air force rank us air force reserve adfunk Jehad Internet Military Aviation 0 February 7th 04 05:24 AM
USAF = US Amphetamine Fools RT Military Aviation 104 September 25th 03 03:17 PM
Air Force announces acquisition management reorganization Otis Willie Military Aviation 0 August 21st 03 09:16 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.