Circle to land question

Last week, I was doing approaches in actual IMC, and returning back to MBO
(Madison, MS), I broke out right at minimum ceilings 4.8 miles DME from the
JAN VOR. Ceilings were just above 900 feet. Missed minimums are 5 DME an
900 feet ceilings (NOTAM raised it from 860 to 900).

The approach takes you into a 45 degree entry for downwind for runway 17 or
midfield for 35 circle to approach. There was a plane at the end of
taxiway 35 waiting for his clearance for take off.

This got me to thinking.....

Had I broke out of the clouds at mid field at 5 DME from the JAN VOR, what
would be the proper procedure for landing on 35? Winds were blowing from
340 at 21 knots gusting to 29 knots. Airport has a left hand pattern.

Would it be "acceptable" to cross mid field and execute a right hand
pattern entry? No noise abatement issues at this airport.

Allen

On Fri, 6 May 2005 22:07:08 -0500, A Lieberman wrote:

I mixed up runway assignments.....

The approach takes you to a 45 for landing 35 or cross mid field for 17.
Would it be acceptable practice to cross mid field and execute a right hand
pattern for runway 35.

Allen

Last week, I was doing approaches in actual IMC, and returning back to MBO
(Madison, MS), I broke out right at minimum ceilings 4.8 miles DME from the
JAN VOR. Ceilings were just above 900 feet. Missed minimums are 5 DME an
900 feet ceilings (NOTAM raised it from 860 to 900).

The approach takes you into a 45 degree entry for downwind for runway 17 or
midfield for 35 circle to approach. There was a plane at the end of
taxiway 35 waiting for his clearance for take off.

This got me to thinking.....

Had I broke out of the clouds at mid field at 5 DME from the JAN VOR, what
would be the proper procedure for landing on 35? Winds were blowing from
340 at 21 knots gusting to 29 knots. Airport has a left hand pattern.

Would it be "acceptable" to cross mid field and execute a right hand
pattern entry? No noise abatement issues at this airport.

Allen

In article ,
A Lieberman wrote:

Last week, I was doing approaches in actual IMC, and returning back to MBO
(Madison, MS), I broke out right at minimum ceilings 4.8 miles DME from the
JAN VOR. Ceilings were just above 900 feet. Missed minimums are 5 DME an
900 feet ceilings (NOTAM raised it from 860 to 900).

The approach takes you into a 45 degree entry for downwind for runway 17 or
midfield for 35 circle to approach. There was a plane at the end of
taxiway 35 waiting for his clearance for take off.

This got me to thinking.....

Had I broke out of the clouds at mid field at 5 DME from the JAN VOR, what
would be the proper procedure for landing on 35? Winds were blowing from
340 at 21 knots gusting to 29 knots. Airport has a left hand pattern.

Would it be "acceptable" to cross mid field and execute a right hand
pattern entry? No noise abatement issues at this airport.

Yep. You can do anything you need to to get on the ground when you're
finishing a circle-to-land approach.

rg

On Fri, 6 May 2005 22:07:08 -0500, A Lieberman wrote:

Last week, I was doing approaches in actual IMC, and returning back to MBO
(Madison, MS), I broke out right at minimum ceilings 4.8 miles DME from the
JAN VOR. Ceilings were just above 900 feet. Missed minimums are 5 DME an
900 feet ceilings (NOTAM raised it from 860 to 900).

The approach takes you into a 45 degree entry for downwind for runway 17 or
midfield for 35 circle to approach. There was a plane at the end of
taxiway 35 waiting for his clearance for take off.

This got me to thinking.....

Had I broke out of the clouds at mid field at 5 DME from the JAN VOR, what
would be the proper procedure for landing on 35? Winds were blowing from
340 at 21 knots gusting to 29 knots. Airport has a left hand pattern.

Would it be "acceptable" to cross mid field and execute a right hand
pattern entry? No noise abatement issues at this airport.

Allen

In my opinion, there are two issues here. One is regulatory:

================================================== ==============
§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G
airspace.

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating
an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area
must comply with the requirements of this section.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an
operating control tower in Class G airspace—

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the
left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings
indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot
must make all turns to the right ...

§ 91.127 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class E
airspace.

(a) Unless otherwise required by part 93 of this chapter or unless
otherwise authorized or required by the ATC facility having jurisdiction
over the Class E airspace area, each person operating an aircraft on or in
the vicinity of an airport in a Class E airspace area must comply with the
requirements of §91.126.

================================================

Sure, the situation could "require" that you make a turn to the right; or
you could get "authorized" by ATC; but you might have to justify your
decision if you felt that it was "required", especially if you did so
without authorization, and there was some incident.

The second (and probably more important) issue has to do with avoiding
possible VFR traffic in the area/pattern that is executing normal left hand
traffic. I believe KMBO is Class G below 700'. If so, the VFR minima are
1 mile/clear of clouds. There certainly could be VFR traffic operating
to/from the airport legally in the Class G with 900/5 weather.

I've done that myself going from a water takeoff to a land airport (KLCI)
served by instrument approaches under conditions similar to what you
describe. All legal. I don't know if seaplanes are allowed on the
reservoir to the east of your airport, but that might be one source of VFR
traffic other than folk in the pattern.

Best,

Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Garret wrote:

In article ,
A Lieberman wrote:

Last week, I was doing approaches in actual IMC, and returning back to MBO
(Madison, MS), I broke out right at minimum ceilings 4.8 miles DME from the
JAN VOR. Ceilings were just above 900 feet. Missed minimums are 5 DME an
900 feet ceilings (NOTAM raised it from 860 to 900).

The approach takes you into a 45 degree entry for downwind for runway 17 or
midfield for 35 circle to approach. There was a plane at the end of
taxiway 35 waiting for his clearance for take off.

This got me to thinking.....

Had I broke out of the clouds at mid field at 5 DME from the JAN VOR, what
would be the proper procedure for landing on 35? Winds were blowing from
340 at 21 knots gusting to 29 knots. Airport has a left hand pattern.

Would it be "acceptable" to cross mid field and execute a right hand
pattern entry? No noise abatement issues at this airport.

Yep. You can do anything you need to to get on the ground when you're
finishing a circle-to-land approach.

rg

Provided there is no restriction to circling and provided you remain within the
circling maneuvering area for your approach category. At this airport for
someone not familiar with the area, electing Cat D minimums would be a prudent
plan provided that got you clear of clouds with adequate visibility.

You didn't have any runway assignment; can't be without an operating control
tower.

A Lieberman wrote:

On Fri, 6 May 2005 22:07:08 -0500, A Lieberman wrote:

I mixed up runway assignments.....

The approach takes you to a 45 for landing 35 or cross mid field for 17.
Would it be acceptable practice to cross mid field and execute a right hand
pattern for runway 35.

Allen

Last week, I was doing approaches in actual IMC, and returning back to MBO
(Madison, MS), I broke out right at minimum ceilings 4.8 miles DME from the
JAN VOR. Ceilings were just above 900 feet. Missed minimums are 5 DME an
900 feet ceilings (NOTAM raised it from 860 to 900).

The approach takes you into a 45 degree entry for downwind for runway 17 or
midfield for 35 circle to approach. There was a plane at the end of
taxiway 35 waiting for his clearance for take off.

This got me to thinking.....

Had I broke out of the clouds at mid field at 5 DME from the JAN VOR, what
would be the proper procedure for landing on 35? Winds were blowing from
340 at 21 knots gusting to 29 knots. Airport has a left hand pattern.

Would it be "acceptable" to cross mid field and execute a right hand
pattern entry? No noise abatement issues at this airport.

Allen

On Sat, 07 May 2005 06:20:32 -0700, wrote:

You didn't have any runway assignment; can't be without an operating control
tower.

Hi Tim,

I probably used a wrong choice of words.

The VOR alpha into MBO leads you to mid field. If you choose to cross mid
field, and maintain a standard pattern (left hand) that will take you to
runway 17. 45 into downwind takes you to 35.

I had reversed the runways in my initial posting.

Allen

While your logic is sound for the second argument, MBO has an instrument
approach and it underlies Jackson's Class C airspace. I don't have a
sectional for that area, but I'll bet the Class E goes to 700' above surface
at the airport. The sectional may also show that MBO is actually in or
partially in the surface to 4000AGL Class C airspace since it is so close to
Jackson. If that is the case, then the viz and cloud clearance requirements
would preclude that VFR traffic from LEGALLY operating.

Sooo... any Jackson pilot know what Jackson approach expects?



In my opinion, there are two issues here. One is regulatory:

================================================== ==============
§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G
airspace.

snip
================================================

Sure, the situation could "require" that you make a turn to the right; or
you could get "authorized" by ATC; but you might have to justify your
decision if you felt that it was "required", especially if you did so
without authorization, and there was some incident.

The second (and probably more important) issue has to do with avoiding
possible VFR traffic in the area/pattern that is executing normal left
hand
traffic. I believe KMBO is Class G below 700'. If so, the VFR minima are
1 mile/clear of clouds. There certainly could be VFR traffic operating
to/from the airport legally in the Class G with 900/5 weather.

I've done that myself going from a water takeoff to a land airport (KLCI)
served by instrument approaches under conditions similar to what you
describe. All legal. I don't know if seaplanes are allowed on the
reservoir to the east of your airport, but that might be one source of VFR
traffic other than folk in the pattern.

Best,

Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Fri, 13 May 2005 17:10:18 -0400, "Paul Lynch" wrote:

The sectional may also show that MBO is actually in or
partially in the surface to 4000AGL Class C airspace since it is so close to
Jackson. If that is the case, then the viz and cloud clearance requirements
would preclude that VFR traffic from LEGALLY operating.

I reviewed data prior to MY posting which indicates the contrary to your
assumption.

With regard to your specific statement regarding the CCA, over MBO the
floor of the CCA is at 1700'MSL (or 1374' AGL).


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Fri, 13 May 2005 21:49:45 -0400, Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

On Fri, 13 May 2005 17:10:18 -0400, "Paul Lynch" wrote:

The sectional may also show that MBO is actually in or
partially in the surface to 4000AGL Class C airspace since it is so close to
Jackson. If that is the case, then the viz and cloud clearance requirements
would preclude that VFR traffic from LEGALLY operating.

I reviewed data prior to MY posting which indicates the contrary to your
assumption.

With regard to your specific statement regarding the CCA, over MBO the
floor of the CCA is at 1700'MSL (or 1374' AGL).

Ron,

You are correct, in that MBO is not in Charlie airspace.

There is plenty of room to maneuver south of MBO to land without entering
the inner ring of Charlie airspace.

Even though there is a wind sock at the boat yard off the reservoir, to my
knowledge, there are no sea planes based in the reservoir, so I doubt that
I would find VFR traffic in the pattern when ceilings are 900 feet. Of
course, anything is possible!

Since the airspace would be all mine for an IFR arrival, and winds would be
prevailing out of the north, Jackson approach would expect me to land on
35.

I **wouldn't think** JAN Approach would care how I maneuvered to get to 35,
whether I entered downwind or improvise my own right hand pattern.

I just want to be sure I am "procedurally correct" without having the need
to "deviate from FARS" and making a PIC decision should a right hand
pattern be warranted when breaking out midfield on the VOR alpha at MBO.

The regulations do state left hand patterns (Thanks Ron for posting), so I
just wonder how others would handle this circle to land procedure with
winds prevailing out of the north?

I am aware, that I can deviate from FARS as warranted in the interest of
safety to the flight but would rather not exercise that right, but do it
right in the first place.

Allen