Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

george writes:

Bull****. Plain and simple.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ60fitlU70

All I see is a stupid pilot violating Federal air regulations and
overstressing his (rented?) aircraft.

JohnT writes:

What physical sensations are you referring to?

All of them. Some people are very into strong sensations.

You don't fly and you know nothing about flying.

I have flown in airplanes many times. The sensations felt by pilots are
identical to those felt by passengers.

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 22:39:01 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Hatunen writes:

Really? How many private pilots do you know well enough to make
that claim?

Quite a few.

If. I'm not particulary fond of hitting tubulence when I'm in an
airliner, but physical sensations are hard to avoid if you fly
much.

Sure, but they are not an integral part of flying, unless you fly specifically

Good grief. That's an almost stupid thing to say.

for the thrill of sensations.

There are probably a few pilots who do things in the air for the
thrill of it. And there are some stunt pilots who do it for pay
or to win prizes. But as the old pilots' saw goes, "There are old
pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold
pilots."

But there are plenty of undesired sensations in flying even for
cautious pilots.

There are lots of YouTube videos of inexperienced, stupid pilots doing just
that.

How many? Two? Four? A dozen?

They don't always identify themselves, but eventually their names tend
to appear in NTSB reports.

You know this how? Are you psychic?

Although I admit, as I said above, thre are no old, bold pilots.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

writes:

Ignore what the plane tells you before a stall and YOU would
be dead.

Fly the airplane correctly and you won't have to be told about an impending
stall by the airplane. If you feel an impending stall, you're already too far
behind the aircraft.

One of the first things I was taught was to NOT ignore what the plane
is trying to tell you.

It seems to have made an overriding impression upon you, as you seem to rely
upon it above all else. If you're not careful, that will kill you one day,
unless you stick to perfect VMC.

It WILL tell you when it's ready to stop
flying BEFORE it shows on your airspeed indicator something you have
no clue about since MSFS doesn't indicate this.

As I've said, if you are flying correctly, you won't get any secret messages
from the aircraft.

You may be able to get away with flying like this in a Cessna 152, but it
won't work in a 747.

As others already told you, you feel it in the controls (mushy, then
shudders).

Only after you've fallen behind the airplane.

It's a bit like saying you know you're approaching the braking limit in your
car when one of the wheels locks. That's very true, but by the time one of the
wheels locks, you're already far beyond where you should safely be. Where
there's smoke, there's fire, but it's better to avoid conditions that start
fires to begin with.

Same thing for landing, ignore what the plane when it's not ready to
land and YOU would be dead. You feel it before you see it indicated
on instruments.

You need to find other ways to fly than by the seat of your pants. Or stop
flying IFR, at least.

Hatunen writes:

And all of those lowtime private pilots can spot a non-pilot who
thinks he knows-it-all from a computer game a mile away.

Since they are not important, what they do or don't spot is irrelevant. They
are just noise.

Hatunen writes:

Good grief. That's an almost stupid thing to say.

Not if you have an instrument rating.

There are probably a few pilots who do things in the air for the
thrill of it.

They are among the most at risk for accidents. Usually, they are inexperienced
(in part because they are more likely to kill themselves). However, there are
idiots with experience, too--see Pinnacle Airlines flight 3701.

But as the old pilots' saw goes, "There are old
pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold
pilots."

Yes. But there are many young and would-be bold pilots posting here. The kind
who would buy a Cirrus if they could afford it.

But there are plenty of undesired sensations in flying even for
cautious pilots.

Yes--that's one of the drawbacks of flying for real vs. flying a sim. I hate
having my ears pop, for example.

How many? Two? Four? A dozen?

By my count, perhaps several hundred.

You know this how? Are you psychic?

I know this from studies that show a link between this type of behavior and
accidents. It's not limited to airplanes, either: exactly the same tendencies
can be seen among automobile drivers.

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 22:40:59 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

george writes:

Bull****. Plain and simple.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ60fitlU70

All I see is a stupid pilot violating Federal air regulations and
overstressing his (rented?) aircraft.

Again you display your actual lack of knowledge and willingness
to display it in public. First, there is no FAR prohibiting the
demonstration or practice of doing spins. Second, as anyone who
has done a spin is aware, there is hardly any structural stress
in a spin. In fact, once you get used to the fact that the earth
seems to be rotating very fast in front of you it's all rather
peaceful without any apparent extra G-forces save maybe a bit of
leaning in your seat.

The normal procedure is to work the controls until you have the
plane in a spiral and then just fly out of it; there is very
little structural stress involved unless you let yourself get too
close to the ground before pulling out and find yourself yanking
the yoke or joystick back too hard (a manouever that will not get
you out of a spin and will just make things worse).

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 22:42:15 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

JohnT writes:

What physical sensations are you referring to?

All of them. Some people are very into strong sensations.

Indeed. That goes without saying. Theme parks are full of them.

You don't fly and you know nothing about flying.

I have flown in airplanes many times. The sensations felt by pilots are
identical to those felt by passengers.

Except the pilots have to deal with it and aren't allowed to
cower in their sets.

Of course it goes without saying that there are a number of
sensations that one can have when when piloting a plane smaller
than a 707 that airline passengers rarely experience, and when
they do it tends to be one of their last sensations.

Since your actual flying experience consists of being a passenger
on on large airliners it would serve you well to restrict your
comments to that experience.

By the way I've been a passenger on some smaller aircraft with
maybe ten or eleven seats, and the sensations are quite a bit
different than when a passenger on a 747.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 22:55:26 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Hatunen writes:

Good grief. That's an almost stupid thing to say.

Not if you have an instrument rating.

There are probably a few pilots who do things in the air for the
thrill of it.

They are among the most at risk for accidents.


Well, duh.

Usually, they are inexperienced
(in part because they are more likely to kill themselves). However, there are
idiots with experience, too--see Pinnacle Airlines flight 3701.

But as the old pilots' saw goes, "There are old
pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold
pilots."

Yes. But there are many young and would-be bold pilots posting here. The kind
who would buy a Cirrus if they could afford it.

Your point being? Please make it relevant to the general subject
and stop focusing your comments on a few fools. The occur in
almost every field of human endeavor.

But there are plenty of undesired sensations in flying even for
cautious pilots.

Yes--that's one of the drawbacks of flying for real vs. flying a sim. I hate
having my ears pop, for example.

If that's your only concern...

As at this point usual you left out the meat of the comment you
are referring to, where you said:

There are lots of YouTube videos of inexperienced, stupid pilots doing just
that.

How many? Two? Four? A dozen?

By my count, perhaps several hundred.

YOU COUNTED SEVERAL HUNDRED YOU-TUBES SHOWING "inexperienced,
stupid pilots"?? You must have a great deal of time on your
hands.

If those YouTube videos were like the video of the pilot
demosntrating a spin that you cited in another post, I am
hazarding a guess that even if you had seen that meny videos you
wouldn't know a reckless maneouver from a non reckless one,
making your opinion about worthless.

How about posting maybe a dozen such URLs and we can see for
ourselves what you consider "inexperienced, stupid pilots". (I'm
not arguing that "inexperienced, stupid pilots" don't exist. I do
hope you are at least clever enough to realize that.)

Again you kleft out what you said that is crucial to
understanding what follow:

They don't always identify themselves, but eventually their names tend
to appear in NTSB reports.

You know this how? Are you psychic?

I know this from studies that show a link between this type of behavior and
accidents.

Another duh. But what you haven't supported is your claim that
most of the several hundred pilots you've seen in YouTube videos
appear in NTSB reports. Given your apparent failure to know the
difference between reckless and non-reckless flying I'm dubious.

It's not limited to airplanes, either: exactly the same tendencies
can be seen among automobile drivers.

Another duh!

Not a particularly apt comparison, though. In America, at least,
drivers don't have ot pass much of a test to get licensed so some
real idiots get on the roads. There's a lot more to getting a
pilot's certification.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 14:16:01 -0700, Hatunen
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 22:42:15 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

JohnT writes:

What physical sensations are you referring to?

All of them. Some people are very into strong sensations.

Indeed. That goes without saying. Theme parks are full of them.

You don't fly and you know nothing about flying.

I have flown in airplanes many times. The sensations felt by pilots are
identical to those felt by passengers.

Except the pilots have to deal with it and aren't allowed to
cower in their sets.

Of course it goes without saying that there are a number of
sensations that one can have when when piloting a plane smaller
than a 707 that airline passengers rarely experience, and when
they do it tends to be one of their last sensations.

Since your actual flying experience consists of being a passenger
on on large airliners it would serve you well to restrict your
comments to that experience.

By the way I've been a passenger on some smaller aircraft with
maybe ten or eleven seats, and the sensations are quite a bit
different than when a passenger on a 747.

(More or less off-topic, but that's the reasoning I used to
decide never again take take the fast boat between Tallinn and
Helsinki, no matter how fast it is, in favor of the big Tallink
ferries.)

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *