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#141
May 14th 04, 05:53 PM
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"Morton Davis" wrote in message news:zeqlc.16667$_41.1056281@attbi_s02...
"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message m... "Morton Davis" wrote in message news:XGblc.11724$IG1.386923@attbi_s04... In News Conferences spokesmen for the DOD admitted that prisoners at Guatanomo Bay were being subjected to sleep deprivation and forced into 'uncompfortable positions' for long periods of time. In the same statements the same spokemen denied they were being tortured. Not by accepted definitions of torture. Accepted by whom? Why, the USA, for one. The UN, apparently, for another. The World Court, or whatever the hell they call trhemselves, for another. Unless you an show where they have filed a protest. See also: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/05/14/torture_at_abu_ghraib_followed_cias_manual/ -- FF 
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#142
May 14th 04, 05:54 PM
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"Dave" wrote in message news:pogoc.26507$bS1.6233@okepread02...
Isn't the New Yorker that paper that had writers making up stuff to sell papers couple months ago? Doesn't sound like a very reliable source. No, it is not. I think you are recalling the New York Times, and IIRC it was one (1) writer, not 'writers'. -- FF
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#143
May 14th 04, 05:57 PM
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"Yardpilot" wrote in message news:paUoc.43283$536.7599994@attbi_s03...
"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message om... "Yardpilot" wrote in message news:74ooc.33144$536.6041503@attbi_s03... "Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message om... ... http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact From the source you provide: A month later, General Karpinski was formally admonished and quietly suspended, and a major investigation into the Army's prison system, authorized by Lieutenant General Ricardo S. Sanchez, the senior commander in Iraq, was under way. A fifty-three-page report, obtained by The New Yorker, written by Major General Antonio M. Taguba and not meant for public release, was completed in late February. Sounds like a coverup to me. In your dreams. The guest today on the Diane Rnem show was Senator John McCain, a man who knows about the abuse of prisoners. The first thing Ms Rhem asked him was if he had ever recieved an answer from Rumsfeld and the DOD to his question about the chain of command at Abu Graib. He replied that he had received the chart which the witnesses had neglected (his choice of words) to bring to the hearing but that chart did not clarify the issue and he STILL had not received an answer as to hwo the chain of command was organised at Abu Graib. That doesn't support your claim. In fact, it is laughably off-point. As you know this shows that the DOD is STILL stonewalling, refusing to provide the information needed to identify the respnsible officers and officials. Can you provide a link to the UCMJ online? -- FF
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#145
May 14th 04, 10:01 PM
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In article , (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote:
"Morton Davis" wrote in message news:zeqlc.16667$_41.1056281@attbi_s02... "Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message m... "Morton Davis" wrote in message news:XGblc.11724$IG1.386923@attbi_s04... In News Conferences spokesmen for the DOD admitted that prisoners at Guatanomo Bay were being subjected to sleep deprivation and forced into 'uncompfortable positions' for long periods of time. In the same statements the same spokemen denied they were being tortured. Not by accepted definitions of torture. Accepted by whom? Why, the USA, for one. The UN, apparently, for another. The World Court, or whatever the hell they call trhemselves, for another. Unless you an show where they have filed a protest. See also: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/edi.../2004/05/14/to rture_at_abu_ghraib_followed_cias_manual/ See the Boston Globe's retraction and admitting that the photo's were fake. Did you just forget that part?
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#146
May 14th 04, 10:02 PM
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#147
May 17th 04, 05:02 PM
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(GS) wrote in message ...
Can you provide proof that there are in fact officers and officials witholding information? Reviewing the thread we see: "Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message om... ... The guest today on the Diane Rnem show was Senator John McCain, .... The first thing Ms Rhem asked him was if he had ever received an answer from Rumsfeld and the DOD to his question about the chain of command at Abu Graib. He replied ...he STILL had not received an answer as to hwo the chain of command was organised at Abu Graib. Yardbird wrote: That doesn't support your claim. In fact, it is laughably off-point. In article , (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote: As you know this shows that the DOD is STILL stonewalling, refusing to provide the information needed to identify the respnsible officers and officials. Can you provide a link to the UCMJ online? (GS) wrote in message ... Can you provide proof that there are in fact officers and officials witholding information? John McCain say that he had not received the information that he requested. Sen McCain said that what he received in response to his request did NOT answer the question. I take John McCain at his word on this. I cannot prove to you that I heard John McCain say those things. A failure to provide the requested information does not prove that it is being deliberately withheld, but the alternative explanations, for example, no one at teh DOD actually knowing what the chain of command was, seems rather unlikely, don't you agree? See also: http://www.democracynow.org/article..../05/17/1431219 -- FF
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#148
May 18th 04, 05:47 AM
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"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message om... "Yardpilot" wrote in message news:paUoc.43283$536.7599994@attbi_s03... "Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message om... "Yardpilot" wrote in message news:74ooc.33144$536.6041503@attbi_s03... "Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message om... ... http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact From the source you provide: A month later, General Karpinski was formally admonished and quietly suspended, and a major investigation into the Army's prison system, authorized by Lieutenant General Ricardo S. Sanchez, the senior commander in Iraq, was under way. A fifty-three-page report, obtained by The New Yorker, written by Major General Antonio M. Taguba and not meant for public release, was completed in late February. Sounds like a coverup to me. In your dreams. The guest today on the Diane Rnem show was Senator John McCain, a man who knows about the abuse of prisoners. The first thing Ms Rhem asked him was if he had ever recieved an answer from Rumsfeld and the DOD to his question about the chain of command at Abu Graib. He replied that he had received the chart which the witnesses had neglected (his choice of words) to bring to the hearing but that chart did not clarify the issue and he STILL had not received an answer as to hwo the chain of command was organised at Abu Graib. That doesn't support your claim. In fact, it is laughably off-point. As you know this shows that the DOD is STILL stonewalling, refusing to provide the information needed to identify the respnsible officers and officials. No, but fantisize all you want. Can you provide a link to the UCMJ online? Yes. Can't you? http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm
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#149
May 19th 04, 01:13 AM
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(GS) wrote in message ...
In article , (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote: "Morton Davis" wrote in message news:zeqlc.16667$_41.1056281@attbi_s02... "Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message m... "Morton Davis" wrote in message news:XGblc.11724$IG1.386923@attbi_s04... In News Conferences spokesmen for the DOD admitted that prisoners at Guatanomo Bay were being subjected to sleep deprivation and forced ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ into 'uncompfortable positions' for long periods of time. In the same statements the same spokemen denied they were being tortured. Not by accepted definitions of torture. Accepted by whom? Why, the USA, for one. The UN, apparently, for another. The World Court, or whatever the hell they call trhemselves, for another. Unless you an show where they have filed a protest. See also: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/edi.../2004/05/14/to rture_at_abu_ghraib_followed_cias_manual/ See the Boston Globe's retraction and admitting that the photo's were fake. Did you just forget that part? Don't change the subject. What photos? The article only mentions photos in passing and no part of the article is based on photos. To my knowledge very few photos from camp X-Ray have been released. Which of those do you think are fake? -- FF
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