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#21
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Gear Warning
At 21:18 16 November 2005, Nigel Pocock wrote:
One problem with a recorded voice is that it sounds like background radio chatter and your brain filters it out (or at least mine does) Our CFI discovered this the hard way in our brand new DG1000. luckily landed on soft grass so no damage. Having broadcast this fact to the entire world wide web under your own name, you are now a marked man. Enjoy your next check flight! Had a similar situation today in the same glider. A lot of radio chatter from joining powered aircraft drowned out the quiet, almost apologetic, female voice warning. Got the wheel down though. Ed. |
#22
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Gear Warning
At 22:36 16 November 2005, Gary Emerson wrote:
So does the BGA recommend to use a pre-landing checklist where the spoilers are checked? If the spoilers are checked early in the pattern then the logic regarding gear warning systems is not very logical. Yes, pre-landing checks are carried out; they include checking the gear is down. If you do the checks your gear shouldn't be up on approach. If you don't do the checks you wouldn't have checked either gear or airbrakes and you'll be distracted on approach by the buzzer. You don't need a buzzer; just carry out your checks. |
#23
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Gear Warning
At 22:36 16 November 2005, Gary Emerson wrote:
So does the BGA recommend to use a pre-landing checklist where the spoilers are checked? If the spoilers are checked early in the pattern then the logic regarding gear warning systems is not very logical. Yes, pre-landing checks are carried out; they include checking the gear is down. If you do the checks your gear shouldn't be up on approach. If you don't do the checks you wouldn't have checked either gear or airbrakes and you'll be distracted on approach by the buzzer. You don't need a buzzer; just carry out your checks. |
#24
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Gear Warning
While the BGA rule might make some sense landing on a grass runway (or
mud, as it is in Britain), I wouldn't like to see anyone land a nice glass ship on our Arizona rock and gravel runways. I am also not sure I would agree with their rationale. In my opinion, it would be a particularly inept pilot who could not lower his/her gear at all but the final stages of a landing approach and who might be startled by a radio call so badly they lost control. The BGA procedure also now leaves an immobile glider sitting in the middle of the runway - another hazard! Perhaps some BGA members could illuminate us on why their ruling body considers them incapable of taking corrective action when landing? Mike |
#25
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Gear Warning
At 23:30 16 November 2005, Mike The Strike wrote:
While the BGA rule might make some sense landing on a grass runway (or mud, as it is in Britain), I wouldn't like to see anyone land a nice glass ship on our Arizona rock and gravel runways. I am also not sure I would agree with their rationale. In my opinion, it would be a particularly inept pilot who could not lower his/her gear at all but the final stages of a landing approach and who might be startled by a radio call so badly they lost control. The BGA procedure also now leaves an immobile glider sitting in the middle of the runway - another hazard! Perhaps some BGA members could illuminate us on why their ruling body considers them incapable of taking corrective action when landing? Mike I thought someone had explained. Not doing your pre-landing checks and landing with the wheel up is inexcusable and embarrassing, but not a big deal damagewise. At most a bit of gel repair needed. Getting distracted on approach, changing hands on stick, letting go of airbrake lever, rushing to lower gear and not monitoring the approach could, and obviously has, proved disastrous. The inept pilot is the one who does not follow basic airmanship routines such as checks. |
#26
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Gear Warning
How about a mechanical warning, like I use on my present glider? It's a small spring-loaded plastic clamp that is on the gear handle when the gear is down, then moved to the spoiler handle just before raising the gear. The clamp location is reversed for landing. Foolproof... almost - and I'm a better fool. It was a ridge day and the clouds were barely above the ridge. I had to use spoilers to keep from getting sucked into the clouds. I got used to working the spoilers with the clamp attached. Add to that, the failure to use a proper checklist... No damage at all as it was on grass but sooo many witnesses :-). I'm much better at checklists now and also have an audible gear warning. The warning buzzer is a great idea, and suggest that the BGA reconsider their opinion. Tony V. |
#27
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Gear Warning
Hey Bill - You musta been the guy I saw flying down the ridge with the
gear down ! See ya, Dave Bill Daniels wrote: ..... Another neat backup is GPS_LOG WinCE PDA software. It sounds a warning of your choice by playing a .wav file when the glider descends to pattern altitude above the terrain elevation map. |
#28
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Gear Warning
Pilots who can't respond to a gear warning or radio call probably
shouldn't be flying at all! This isn't a big multi-tasking job. What would such a person do if the canopy popped open, the brake handle came off in his hands or the spoilers opened on takeoff? In a sailplane with a left-handed gear handle, all it takes is- brakes closed, gear down, brakes open again. I timed it at 3 to 4 seconds in an ASW 20. With a right-handed gear handle, you have to close brakes, switch hands, put gear down, switch back, brakes open, in 4 to 6 seconds. On downwind, you have plenty of time to do this and even on final if it isn't too short. At 50 knots, 6 seconds represents no moe than about 600 feet - say 200 meters. BGA sounds a bit like a mother hen! Mike |
#29
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Gear Warning
Mark Dickson wrote:
Yes, pre-landing checks are carried out; they include checking the gear is down. If you do the checks your gear shouldn't be up on approach. If you don't do the checks you wouldn't have checked either gear or airbrakes and you'll be distracted on approach by the buzzer. You don't need a buzzer; just carry out your checks. Spoiler checks are easy to get right, and become pretty automatic for most. Landing gear is not so simple for those fly multiple gliders, some with fixed landing gear, some with gear handles that move the "wrong" way, etc. Plus, for those of us who land at asphalt, dirt, or gravels strips, a gear up landing is a US$1000 or so mistake. I'll keep my gear warning, thanks. I've only heard one once in anger, and it was well worth the momentary distraction... |
#30
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Gear Warning
Mark Dickson wrote:
At 22:36 16 November 2005, Gary Emerson wrote: So does the BGA recommend to use a pre-landing checklist where the spoilers are checked? If the spoilers are checked early in the pattern then the logic regarding gear warning systems is not very logical. Yes, pre-landing checks are carried out; they include checking the gear is down. If you do the checks your gear shouldn't be up on approach. If you don't do the checks you wouldn't have checked either gear or airbrakes and you'll be distracted on approach by the buzzer. You don't need a buzzer; just carry out your checks. For most, the gear warning buzzer will only be heard when pulling spoilers at altitude to intentionally descend. However, it's a nice feature to have on that day when you left the gear down the whole flight. You won't find this mistake on short final, but most likely very early on in the pattern where it's a quick fix and not likely to add extra risk in the landing phase. |
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