Nasa Icing courses

Start with the throttle 1/2 open, zero rpm to 1800 with no
oil pressure. Etc.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
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But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
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"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newsb1wf.471788$084.269539@attbi_s22...
| Add a little sludge, maybe some cold oil and an
over-revved
| engine, and you get cam lobe /journal failure or the
lifter.
|
| Can you expand on that a bit, Jim? What, exactly, is an
"over-revved
| engine"?
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|
|

Whenever I see less than 200 hours on an engine in a year, it seems like
there are tales of destruction of an engine to follow.

???

That describes almost every privately owned aircraft at our airport. Only
trainers routinely put on more than 200 hours per year.

Mary and I fly more than anyone at the airport, and we just barely put 200
hours on last year.

Really? I would have thought you put far more than that on, per year.

OK, then perhaps it is the frequency of being well warmed up that is the
more important factor. I have always read that the moisture that is the
killer, and when engines sit for more than a couple weeks, frequently, that
the rust begins killing the internals.

I wonder what the minimum time per year, and maximum frequency of running is
necessary to keep rust at bay?

Still, I think that only rollers touching the cams would be beneficial. I
wonder how many kits have been designed to retrofit popular lycosaruses?
--
Jim in NC

"Montblack" wrote in message
...
Jim (OP) has experience with people involved in their primary training.

Weather is taught to VFR primary students, why not icing?

Because they have enough to learn already?

Seriously though, a primary student's knowledge of icing need not extend
much further than "don't fly when freezing rain is forecast". For extra
credit, a short discussion of what causes freezing rain might be called for.

Most icing occurs inside a cloud, and VFR pilots should not have to worry
about that, or anything else that might happen inside a cloud.

But more importantly (and more to the point) the r.a.student newsgroup is
more about the process of learning to fly, and especially as it applies to
primary students, than it is about any random topic a pilot might be
educated on. Here's the charter:

It's been said that every good pilot is a student pilot -- for
life. This group is dedicated to learning experiences and questions,
particularly (but not exclusively) by and for those who haven't
yet attained the private pilot certificate. Written exams, solo
flights, learning to land, maneuvers, flight tests, instructors
and instructional techniques, etc.

Pete

Jim Macklin wrote:
There is also the fact that the oil pump is at one end of
the engine and the cam shaft lobe that fails is probably at
the other [a guess] and the oil takes some time to reach the
journal and establish a full oil bearing.

Add a little sludge, maybe some cold oil and an over-revved
engine, and you get cam lobe /journal failure or the lifter.

Pilot error due to poor operation.



This is on an O-540. The cam lobe that wore is in the center of the shaft.

So how long is too long to sit? The longest my airplane sat between
flights since the O/H was one stretch of 7 weeks while it was in the
shop for corrosion repair on the belly. Second longest was also in the
shop for 4 weeks for a new interior. Other than that it has been flown
a minimum of every 20 days.

So if it is pilot error, I am all ears as to what I can do to improve my
technique. So far, no one has been able to tell me anything I did
wrong, including Penn Yan.

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

Whenever I see less than 200 hours on an engine in a year, it seems like
there are tales of destruction of an engine to follow.

???

That describes almost every privately owned aircraft at our airport.
Only trainers routinely put on more than 200 hours per year.

Mary and I fly more than anyone at the airport, and we just barely put
200 hours on last year.

Really? I would have thought you put far more than that on, per year.

OK, then perhaps it is the frequency of being well warmed up that is the
more important factor. I have always read that the moisture that is the
killer, and when engines sit for more than a couple weeks, frequently,
that the rust begins killing the internals.

I wonder what the minimum time per year, and maximum frequency of running
is necessary to keep rust at bay?

Still, I think that only rollers touching the cams would be beneficial. I
wonder how many kits have been designed to retrofit popular lycosaruses?
--
Jim in NC

I wonder if there is any statistical evidence on this issue regarding
incidences per region?

Are planes out here in the desert SW less prone to this?

Just wondering out loud...

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

Jim Macklin wrote:

Start with the throttle 1/2 open, zero rpm to 1800 with no
oil pressure. Etc.



No, I don't start mine like that. On shut down, I set the throttle for
1000 RPM and lock it. The throttle doesn't move again until the engine
is warmed up. I preheat religiously below 30F, and I don't leave the
preheater plugged in.

Also, if it were corrosion that got mine, why only one cam lobe?? My
mechanic tells me there have been a rash of problems with newer cams
with flaws in the case hardening. I haven't seen evidence to prove it
though.

Peter Duniho wrote:
Weather is taught to VFR primary students, why not icing?

Because they have enough to learn already?

Seriously though, a primary student's knowledge of icing need not extend
much further than "don't fly when freezing rain is forecast". For extra
credit, a short discussion of what causes freezing rain might be called for.

I disagree; have you hung around the airport, early in the morning,
on a gorgeous winter day, perfect VFR day, but very cold and all the
aircraft on the ramp have frost or ice on them? you wouldn't believe
the number of folks who don't understand that just brushing off the
worst of it is not good enough...

--Sylvain

"Jay Honeck"

The intake cam lobe for the #3 and #4 cylinders failed and is worn down
considerably, hence the engine coming off and waiting for the crate.

I've been following your engine woes with great interest, Ray, and not a
small bit of horror. To say you are living one of my worst nightmares is
not far from the truth, and I feel your pain.

Does anyone *really* know what causes a camshaft to fail like this? I
read about it happening with alarming regularity, and it's never
attributed to anything in particular. It's always treated like an act of
God, or like a weather phenomenon, rather than like the mechanical failure
it is.

And mechanical failures should have simple explanations, no? WHY did one
of the cam lobes fail? Why didn't ALL of the cam lobes fail?

Timeless issue. www.aviationconsumer.com has hours of reading on the
subject. The common factor is infrequent flying.

moo

"Sylvain" wrote in message
t...
I disagree; have you hung around the airport, early in the morning,
on a gorgeous winter day, perfect VFR day, but very cold and all the
aircraft on the ramp have frost or ice on them? you wouldn't believe
the number of folks who don't understand that just brushing off the
worst of it is not good enough...

How is that a disagreement with what I wrote?

My point was not to enumerate all the things a primary student needs to know
about icing. It was simply to point out they don't need to know much, and
regardless the original post was off-topic in r.a.student, no matter HOW
much they need to learn about icing.

The same logic that asserts the original post was on-topic in r.a.student
leads to the conclusion that ANY post that is on-topic in r.a.piloting or
r.a.ifr is on-topic in r.a.student. Clearly that conclusion is false, so by
way of the contradiction so is the logic that led to the conclusion.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:
How is that a disagreement with what I wrote?

you said, and I quote:

"...a primary student's knowledge of icing need not extend
much further than "don't fly when freezing rain is forecast"..."


That was the specific statement of yours with which I do disagree.

I did illustrate my point with a very specific and real life
example where a primary student's knowledge of icing DOES indeed
need to extend further than don't fly when freezing rain is
forecast.

Don't be so defensive, I was not attacking your beloved
windows operating system! :-)

--Sylvain