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Precision Landings and practice



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 12th 04, 01:00 AM
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Default Precision Landings and practice

As a segue from off airport landings....how about precision? Can you
consistently touch down at minimum speed with your regular aircraft
within a 50' mark? Can you do it with a short/soft/XW/ Obstacle? Can
you do it with any configuration of flaps and or power?
OK....got an electrical failure that prevents any flaps from coming
down and you are faced with a no flap landing. Should be a piece of
cake but when is the last time you did it with precision? Suppose you
have an engine failure and are headed down into a wooded area with only
a small meadow for any decent landing? The surface is unknown, trees
all the way around, and you're not sure of the exact wind until you are
committed on final. There you have the elements of
short/soft/XW/Obstacle all wrapped up in one and easy to visualize.
Many different scenarios that can be described that are day to day
events at the airport but so few ever challenge their abilities. I
can't remember the last time I saw a spot landing contest or even heard
of one being proposed. Great way to focus on precision landings and
make them fun.
All of my students have been challenged to beat me at spot landings but
so far none have managed...close but no cigar. That only serves to
motivate them to do better and in turn makes them better pilots.
How about your landings?
Fly safe and Merry Christmas to you all
Rocky aka Ol Shy & Bashful Selway Kid

  #2  
Old December 12th 04, 01:16 AM
Morgans
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Default


wrote in message
ps.com...
As a segue from off airport landings....how about precision? Can you
consistently touch down at minimum speed with your regular aircraft
within a 50' mark? Can you do it with a short/soft/XW/ Obstacle? Can
you do it with any configuration of flaps and or power?


And in addition to this type of landing without power, how about when you
have power, but have to make a rapid reaction to change you spot at the last
moment. What comes to mind, is at OSH on 9/27, when at the last moment the
controller (or other circumstances) calls for a change to touch down one dot
early or one dot later that what he said at first, and now you are feet from
the ground, trying to make it work.

As a spectator at OSH, it seems like some people are totally unprepared for
precision spot landings, and some practice would be in order. Good idea for
a thread.
--
Jim in NC


  #3  
Old December 12th 04, 01:18 AM
William W. Plummer
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wrote:
As a segue from off airport landings....how about precision? Can you
consistently touch down at minimum speed with your regular aircraft
within a 50' mark? Can you do it with a short/soft/XW/ Obstacle? Can
you do it with any configuration of flaps and or power?
OK....got an electrical failure that prevents any flaps from coming
down and you are faced with a no flap landing. Should be a piece of
cake but when is the last time you did it with precision? Suppose you
have an engine failure and are headed down into a wooded area with only
a small meadow for any decent landing? The surface is unknown, trees
all the way around, and you're not sure of the exact wind until you are
committed on final. There you have the elements of
short/soft/XW/Obstacle all wrapped up in one and easy to visualize.
Many different scenarios that can be described that are day to day
events at the airport but so few ever challenge their abilities. I
can't remember the last time I saw a spot landing contest or even heard
of one being proposed. Great way to focus on precision landings and
make them fun.
All of my students have been challenged to beat me at spot landings but
so far none have managed...close but no cigar. That only serves to
motivate them to do better and in turn makes them better pilots.
How about your landings?
Fly safe and Merry Christmas to you all
Rocky aka Ol Shy & Bashful Selway Kid

This thread might expand to include "Glassy Water" landings in seaplanes
because it is a very precise approach and landing without looking down.
Also, commercial glider pilots must be able to drop the plane between
two lines 100' appart. (200' for non-commercial). Think about that --
you can land across the runway at a normal airport and without power!

  #4  
Old December 12th 04, 01:36 AM
Peter Duniho
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"William W. Plummer" wrote in
message news:57Mud.555936$D%.476618@attbi_s51...
This thread might expand to include "Glassy Water" landings in seaplanes
because it is a very precise approach and landing without looking down.


Not exactly. It's "precise" in the sense that it's important to maintain
just the right airspeed and power setting, achieving the proper vertical
descent rate (100fpm or so, max 200fpm), so that you touch down on the water
gently and with the correct pitch attitude.

But it's nothing like a spot landing. A glassy water landing pretty much
guarantees that you will NOT land at a precise point on the water. That's
kind of the point...you can't really tell where you'll touch down, so you
make sure you're ready to touch down at any moment.

There are, of course, additional "precision" elements such as making a
normal approach as low over visible terrain as possible, to minimize the
time spent in the "instrument" phase of the glassy water landing. But even
so, there's absolutely no element to glassy water landings that have
anything to do with placing the airplane on the landing surface at a
particular spot.

Glassy water landings are "precision" the way flight maneuvers like turns
about a point, chandelles, etc. are "precision". If that's what you meant,
I can wholeheartedly agree with that.

Also, commercial glider pilots must be able to drop the plane between
two lines 100' appart. (200' for non-commercial). Think about that --
you can land across the runway at a normal airport and without power!


You mean "can touch down across the runway", right? Even in a sailplane,
one might have trouble actually coming to a stop before reaching the other
side of the runway (without a decent headwind, anyway).

Pete


  #5  
Old December 12th 04, 06:17 AM
Jack Allison
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Morgans wrote:

As a spectator at OSH, it seems like some people are totally unprepared for
precision spot landings, and some practice would be in order. Good idea for
a thread.


I'd agree Jim, from what I've seen at my very limited time attending at
Oshkosh, I've seen some rather interesting flying. Rick Durden has some
great advice in some past Avweb articles. I was fortunate enough to
find them before flying in my first time two years ago. The articles
really got me thinking about the importance of being able to maintain
altitude, airspeed, and pull off good spot landings. It's really not
that hard but it is good to fully understand that anyone flying in needs
to be on their game.

When my brother and I arrived two years ago, I was greeted by the tower
controller with "White Cessna, good job, welcome to Oshkosh". Despite
being early that Monday morning and having the luxury of fairly loose
spacing in the arrival, it was the most intense and rewarding approach
and landing I've ever flown. I'd do it again in a heartbeat....but I'd
be sure to have recently practiced the basic skills necessary.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student, airplane partnership student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)
  #6  
Old December 12th 04, 07:07 AM
tony roberts
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Speaking for myself I do that every single landing.
At my home airport I land on the 1000 ft markers - usually a different
type of landing every time - power on/power off/flaps/no flaps - but
ALWAYS exactly on the 1000 ft markers. At other airports, if there is
room I land on the 1000 ft markers, if there isn't I land on the numbers
- but I always vary it and I always - every single time - land on the
numbers or the 1000 ft markers.
To me, that's just practicing for the day I have an emergency and have
to put the plane down with precision.

Tony
C-GICE




In article om,
wrote:

As a segue from off airport landings....how about precision? Can you
consistently touch down at minimum speed with your regular aircraft
within a 50' mark? Can you do it with a short/soft/XW/ Obstacle? Can
you do it with any configuration of flaps and or power?
OK....got an electrical failure that prevents any flaps from coming
down and you are faced with a no flap landing. Should be a piece of
cake but when is the last time you did it with precision? Suppose you
have an engine failure and are headed down into a wooded area with only
a small meadow for any decent landing? The surface is unknown, trees
all the way around, and you're not sure of the exact wind until you are
committed on final. There you have the elements of
short/soft/XW/Obstacle all wrapped up in one and easy to visualize.
Many different scenarios that can be described that are day to day
events at the airport but so few ever challenge their abilities. I
can't remember the last time I saw a spot landing contest or even heard
of one being proposed. Great way to focus on precision landings and
make them fun.
All of my students have been challenged to beat me at spot landings but
so far none have managed...close but no cigar. That only serves to
motivate them to do better and in turn makes them better pilots.
How about your landings?
Fly safe and Merry Christmas to you all
Rocky aka Ol Shy & Bashful Selway Kid





--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE
  #7  
Old December 12th 04, 01:20 PM
Stefan
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Default

William W. Plummer wrote:

Also, commercial glider pilots must be able to drop the plane between
two lines 100' appart.


Which is not that impressing when you consider that with those huge
airbrakes, you can adjust your glidepath to anything between 50:1 to 5:1.

This said, in our club we have the rule that "every landing is a spot
landing".

Stefan
  #8  
Old December 12th 04, 02:59 PM
Jay Honeck
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When my brother and I arrived two years ago, I was greeted by the tower
controller with "White Cessna, good job, welcome to Oshkosh". Despite
being early that Monday morning and having the luxury of fairly loose
spacing in the arrival, it was the most intense and rewarding approach and
landing I've ever flown. I'd do it again in a heartbeat....but I'd be
sure to have recently practiced the basic skills necessary.


Just think, Jack: only 7.5 months until we get to do it all over again!

God willin' and the crick don't rise, of course...

;-)

Man, I can hardly wait!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #9  
Old December 12th 04, 03:48 PM
john smith
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Sooooo... is there going to be a "Spot Landing" contest as part of this
year's Alexis Park Inn Aerial Open Pre-Airventure Party?

Jay Honeck wrote:
Just think, Jack: only 7.5 months until we get to do it all over again!
God willin' and the crick don't rise, of course... ;-)
Man, I can hardly wait!


  #10  
Old December 12th 04, 03:55 PM
Dan Truesdell
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Jack Allison wrote:


Morgans wrote:

As a spectator at OSH, it seems like some people are totally
unprepared for
precision spot landings, and some practice would be in order. Good
idea for
a thread.



I'd agree Jim, from what I've seen at my very limited time attending at
Oshkosh, I've seen some rather interesting flying. Rick Durden has some
great advice in some past Avweb articles. I was fortunate enough to
find them before flying in my first time two years ago. The articles
really got me thinking about the importance of being able to maintain
altitude, airspeed, and pull off good spot landings. It's really not
that hard but it is good to fully understand that anyone flying in needs
to be on their game.

When my brother and I arrived two years ago, I was greeted by the tower
controller with "White Cessna, good job, welcome to Oshkosh". Despite
being early that Monday morning and having the luxury of fairly loose
spacing in the arrival, it was the most intense and rewarding approach
and landing I've ever flown. I'd do it again in a heartbeat....but I'd
be sure to have recently practiced the basic skills necessary.


OSH is a good example of approach criteria that may apply in a number of
situations. In addition to the ability of doing a spot landing, you
also need to be ready to handle a change. I was on short final for 9
last year (2003, Monday evening), and was given instructions to land on
the numbers. (There was someone on logout.) However, the Bonanza
behind me was getting too close for the controller's comfort, and, at
about 400 feet, he asked me to hit the white dot. No problem (40
degrees of flaps on a 172 makes challenges like these a bit less
daunting). Got a "nice job" from the tower. Great people work there.
That was good practice for the turkeys that occasionally "appear" on the
end of the runways at LEB. (I don't mean stupid pilots, I mean the real
feathered kind.)

--
Remove "2PLANES" to reply.

 




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