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#111
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We have a pilot/owner where I fly that has this tidbit as the first item on
his takeoff checklist: 1. Remove canopy cover 8) -Bob "Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:41310ed8$1@darkstar... ADP wrote: 1. Failed to use proper check list. 2. The aircraft had not filed a flight plan. 3. Pilot failed to maintain proper terrain clearance. everyone nods heads solemnly in agreement with the wise sage who figured this one out too -- ------------+ Mark Boyd Avenal, California, USA |
#112
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#113
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#114
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Herbert Kilian wrote:
[....] Another comment: poking fun at the use of check-lists in this thread is very unfortunate. Herb, I see the main thrust of references to checklists in this thread as a denigration of overly detailed checklists, and as a warning against using checklists in situations where time is of the essence in responding to an abnormal attitude or condition of flight. I hope that everyone understands it is the misuse of checklists and not their proper and very necessary uses at which fun was being poked. Some immediate action steps must be committed to memory and become second nature. In many phases of flight, both normal and abnormal, a checklist is best used as a review. I think you are right about the conduct of control checks. Anybody should be able to move the stick as instructed, but only the pilot can be expected to know the feel of a properly connected system and that feel is best gained at the control surface. Assembly, control, and walk-around checks (always performed separately) seem to me to be the best examples of the "menu" approach to using a checklist. Jack |
#115
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Another comment: poking fun at the use of check-lists in this thread
is very unfortunate. Exactly which part of my post was "poking fun"? I thought that I was being dead (pardon the pun) serious. I have 4 opportunities to catch an error on control linkages: 1. The initial hookup. 2. An immediate check of each control linkage after hookup. 3. The walk-around inspection. 4. Visual observation of control movement standing by the cockpit. Missing all 4 falls into the "being hit by an asteroid" category. Tom |
#116
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The discussion of a) overly-long checklists that don't get used and,
on the other hand, b) the need for checklists reminds me of a discussion with a power instructor (instrument), who made a distinction I hadn't encountered before, but it made sense. He distinguished between a written procedure, a written checklist and an oral checklist. Here's the idea: Written procedu a written sequence of steps to take. Written checklist: a written list of things to check. Oral checklist: a memorized checklist. Should be very short, and memorable, used only for a few last-minute and "death/destruction" items. A written procedure may be quite long and can be detailed. It may contain some lower-importance items. It is used for setting up the aircraft and should be used when there is time for it. Sitting next in line for takeoff on the runway, barreling down final approach, or right after a rope break - not good times for a written procedure. A written checklist may also be quite long. Often it's the same as the procedure list, but it should contain only short reminders of only the important items: its purpose is to confirm that the aircraft is already properly set up. Written checklists should also be used when there is time for them. They provide a double-check; their disadvantage is that they rarely identify anything wrong, so human nature makes it easy to miss something. It's mostly for that reason that a checklist should be as short as possible and should stick to truly important items: no zipper-checks. In 2-pilot operations, the written procedure and checklist can be combined in a single document, but the functions are separated by the challenge-response between the two pilots. For single pilot operation, this instructor did NOT like the approach of read-it-do-it-confirm-it all in one pass. It's too easy to either skip a line, or skip an action (to avoid missing a line, pilots have a tendency to touch the control but keep their eyes on the list, so they don't actually confirm the step or even think about what they're doing). Hence his preference for separating the roles of the two pilots - read it (copilot role), do it (pilot role), check it (copilot role) - into entirely separate sequences. An oral checklist should be short and memorable. It should contain only last-minute items and the few items most likely to cause death and/or destruction. It can be used when the pilot is busy, because it's short and doesn't require reading. In fact, busy moments - when something may get overlooked - can be a good place to insert one! The takeoff and landing checklists are the best examples. I'm still working on how this translates for gliders. I think those long checklists ("zipper check / chewing gum quantity check / attach tow rope") are actually procedures: most pilots probably don't need to keep using the written version (how likely is it that you'll forget to attach the tow rope? - and if you do, what will happen?). Shorter checklists have their place - "task set up on the nav computer" - but probably should be done before you become #1 in line for takeoff. And oral checklists should be used right before takeoff ("brakes-trim-belts" or whatever) and landing (USTALL, or your own favorite) as a last-minute confirmation that nothing really stupid is going to cause something really bad. There's a somewhat separate question of what the right contents for the procedures and checklists should be! |
#117
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Derek Piggott has written as follows:
"I think lots of people still think that pro-spin controls means having a lot of rudder or aileron on and don't realise that the important thing is the stick position. If the stick is well back, spinable machines spin: without the stick being back they don't spin. "I don't need to tell you that many other gliders will spin a turn or two if the stick is kept back on the stop, the c.g. is well aft and a wing drops, even if the aileron and rudder are still central." Even if the pilot coordinates perfectly, and string and ball remain exactly central, a gust or turbulence may cause enough asymmetry to start a wing drop. Gustiness, gradient, shear and turbulence are particularly likely close to the ground. W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). Remove "ic" to reply. "Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message om... snip BTW, as I noted in another thread, spins are not caused by lack of airspeed, but uncoordinated use of the controls -- at least in modern sailplanes. Two things must happen to enter a spin: 1) you must stall, and 2) you must fail to apply sufficient rudder during your attempt to pick up the low wing with aileron. That is, the sailplane is designed with enough rudder to stop autorotation, even with full deflection of the aileron throughout the stall break. snip |
#118
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"Herbert Kilian" wrote in message (snip) Another comment: poking fun at the use of check-lists in this thread is very unfortunate. Herb, J7 I wasn't making fun of using a checklist. Using a checklist is important and I use a fairly detailed one religiously before each flight. I do not, however, need a line item telling me to remove the canopy cover before flight! -Bob Korves |
#119
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On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:19:55 UTC, (Tom Seim)
wrote: : 2. An immediate check of each control linkage after hookup. Which I always get someone else to do. Ian -- |
#120
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There's a somewhat separate question of what the right contents for
the procedures and checklists should be! With apologies to pilots whose memories never fail even under stress, I'm one of those guys who does use a very detailed written checklist. Chewing gum isn't on it but things like food, drinking water, reading glasses, and landout jacket are. But I don't wait until I'm #1 on the takeoff line to use it. One reason is that it's in sections. The first and longest section is the post-assembly checklist with all the stuff on the glider, arranged in the proper walkaround order. I can do that immediately after rigging. Then there's another list of all the stuff that should be in the cockpit--things that wouldn't kill me if I forgot but which might make life less comfortable. Then there are sections for task items (applies only to contests: task sheet, retrieve telephone #, etc.), on the grid (tail dolly, etc.), and pre-takeoff (I use the very old SSA A-B-C-C-C-D sequence that I committed to memory back in the mid 1960s). I've got a section for landing out: remove multi-probe, download trace to CF card, etc., since in the pre-cellular world I once got to a pay telephone without my wallet or the retrieve #. There's even a section for my crew to use for hooking up the trailer. I keep a copy in the cockpit at all times. If I do things out of sequence, I literally check off each item with a pencil. On a normal day at the gliderport, I just run my thumb down the list and make sure I'm not interrupted during one of the sections. OK, maybe this is overkill. But whether I'm crewless or accompanied by my wife and two 10-year-old daughters, it seems like I'm always rushed before takeoff. Having a written checklist not only guarantees I won't forget something but gives me peace of mind when I launch that I've done everything right and lets me focus on flying safely. And in the post-Clem Bowman/Genesis accident era, it gives my family the same peace of mind. I'll confess that in the past 40 years, I've taken off without my map (pre-GPS days), with my dive brakes open, without taping, and with a landing gear door hanging loose. And that doesn't count the time I was on the line ready to launch with the tail dolly still attached. It's fun to scoff about obsessive/compulsive types reaching for their checklist and pencil during a spin recovery. But I'll continue to use my written checklist before every flight, as I noted in the safety talk I gave at this year's U.S. Standard Class Nationals. Chip Bearden |
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