Hey, Germany Invented It... Face It

wrote in message ...
robert arndt wrote:
engines, which created rotating electromagnetic fields, very similar
to the suspected engines of the black craft flying today... only the

Sigh, Nicola Tesla developed the concept of rotating electromagnetic
fields years before WW2, and they are the basis for cheap electric
motors world wide.

1882 to be precise.

Keith

"robert arndt" wrote

Galland has a right to his opinion- all jet flyers do. There are those
today who would pick foreign aircraft to fly other than our own. But
then again Galland only flew the Me-262... he never flew a Vril-7 or
Haunebu disc, did he? What do you think his comments would have been
if he flew those craft?


His comments might have been "Ok..it flies, but not nearly as good as a
regular aircraft"

If disc planform aircraft are soooo good, where are they? 50-60 years later,
and there are zero flying discs in general use.

Somewhere between Gossamer Albatross and the 747, the P-51 and the F-22,
someone, somewhere would have reproduced the general concept. And if it
worked, they'd be using it. Hell...the German engineers that went to the US
and Russia would have said "Hey guys, try this! These things worked really
well for us."

Since to date we have seen none, it must be assumed that the disc was a
waystation on the way to actual functional aircraft. Much as the steam
engine was a waystation on the way to the IC engine in automobiles.
Something to be tried, and then tossed away as "well...it looked like a good
idea anyway".

Oh..I know where they are. The evil US government is monitoring *all*
heavier than air development, everywhere in the world. And supressing any
disc-based investigations. Or simply paying them off and keeping the
aircraft at Area 51. Along with the old German scientists' cadavers.

Pete

Subject: Hey, Germany Invented It... Face It
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 2/18/04 7:16 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

"Tex Houston" wrote in message
...
"Erich Adler" wrote in message
m...
I see that no civil discussion can take place here despite the fact
that you "adults" claim to cherish military aviation. So why all the
fuss about German aircraft, jets or otherwise?


I was reading this seriously until you talked about that paragon of
stealthiness, the U-2. After I got through laughing I read the rest.
Great
parody. You have a talent there. Never lose your sense of humor.

Tex

Laugh this off Tex. The US captured the DFS 228 rocket recon sailplane
in 1945 and took it back home. The aircraft was designed to fly at
(wait for this)... 80,000 ft and carry two Zeiss cameras (IR types
too).
So you think the U-2 came from US sources... uh, no. The funny thing
is the DFS even had a pressurized escape pod, something the U-2
didn't.
And then of course is the German radar-absorbing paint
"Schornsteinfeger"- a carbon paint to scatter radar that was the
inspiration for US Ironball paint applied to the U-2. I agree it
wasn't that effective for that time period, but the US got the idea
from the Germans.
Germans had stealth first- a fact you cannot deny. The Go-229 flew in
Feb 1945, a hell of a long time before the B-2.
Still laughing?

Rob


I was one of the first Allied airman to see an ME 262 attacking in the air. I
am still here to tell about it, I don't think the the 262 or its pilot still
is. Laugh that off.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

From: "Pete"


"robert arndt" wrote

Galland has a right to his opinion- all jet flyers do. There are those
today who would pick foreign aircraft to fly other than our own. But
then again Galland only flew the Me-262... he never flew a Vril-7 or
Haunebu disc, did he? What do you think his comments would have been
if he flew those craft?


His comments might have been "Ok..it flies, but not nearly as good as a
regular aircraft"

If disc planform aircraft are soooo good, where are they? 50-60 years later,
and there are zero flying discs in general use.

Somewhere between Gossamer Albatross and the 747, the P-51 and the F-22,
someone, somewhere would have reproduced the general concept. And if it
worked, they'd be using it. Hell...the German engineers that went to the US
and Russia would have said "Hey guys, try this! These things worked really
well for us."

Since to date we have seen none, it must be assumed that the disc was a
waystation on the way to actual functional aircraft. Much as the steam
engine was a waystation on the way to the IC engine in automobiles.
Something to be tried, and then tossed away as "well...it looked like a good
idea anyway".

Oh..I know where they are. The evil US government is monitoring *all*
heavier than air development, everywhere in the world. And supressing any
disc-based investigations. Or simply paying them off and keeping the
aircraft at Area 51. Along with the old German scientists' cadavers.

Pete

What our Nazi friend seems to be forgetting is during the smae period of time
the U.S. had a flying disc prototype fighter nicknamed the "Flying Flapjack."

He also shows some drawings and photograps of ring shaped vehicles on the
ground, never in flight. In the late 1800s (?) Alexander Graham Bell had
biplane ring shaped "kite" that actually flew. I saw a picture of it and
description pf when, where and how it flew back in the late 1960s. If memory
serves it was about 15 feet across. Granted it wasn't an airplane, but it does
prove he had some idea of such a thing long before the Nazis did.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Erich Adler wrote
I see that no civil discussion can take place here despite the fact
that you "adults" claim to cherish military aviation. So why all the
fuss about German aircraft, jets or otherwise?

To learn about German Jet design:
http://www.germancross.com/

(Julious Cesar)

snip

To learn about German Jet design:
http://www.germancross.com/

According to that website the SS were a voice of reason, the U.S. air forces
straffed children because Luftwaffe aircraft were too difficult to shoot down,
Nazi Germany was misunderstood, the Allies "murdered" Germans like Hoess(
commander of Auschwitz-Berkenau etc. and everything was a Jewish plot.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

ANDREW ROBERT BREEN wrote:

In article ,
Peter Stickney wrote:

snip

American and US companies were already working on axial flow designs
before the end of the war. They knew very well that the centrifugal
design had a limited scope for development but they also knew
it would be easier to produce a reliable engine that way. This
turned out to be correct.

Could argue that - in Britain at least - we lost interest in the
centrifugal flow engine just a touch too early. There was very little
interest in the Nene, IIRC, which is why it was regarded as OK to
sell the design to Russia (while hanging on tight to the Sapphire
and Avon). Of course, the Nene worked very well in MiG15 (and also,
IIRC, in the Tunnen as well as a few other designs). In fact it must
have been the last centrifugal flow engine to power an aircraft in
combat - when did the Indian Sea Hawks go?

snip

Mid-'80s IIRC, but there were MiG-17/-17Fs (VK-1/1F, a Nene copy) )in
combat (Vietnam 1972, Oct. 73, plus probably smaller wars since that Vic
Flintham will no doubt list) after the Sea Hawks (Dec. 1971) last fired in
anger.

Guy

In article ,
Guy Alcala wrote:
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN wrote:
have been the last centrifugal flow engine to power an aircraft in
combat - when did the Indian Sea Hawks go?

snip

Mid-'80s IIRC, but there were MiG-17/-17Fs (VK-1/1F, a Nene copy) )in
combat (Vietnam 1972, Oct. 73, plus probably smaller wars since that Vic
Flintham will no doubt list) after the Sea Hawks (Dec. 1971) last fired in
anger.

of course - the 17 used the Nene clone as well. I'd forgotten that.
For an engine that the Air Ministry thought was hopelessly outdated
in 194grumble, the Nene didn't do half badly..

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)

In article , Pete wrote:

"robert arndt" wrote

Galland has a right to his opinion- all jet flyers do. There are those
today who would pick foreign aircraft to fly other than our own. But
then again Galland only flew the Me-262... he never flew a Vril-7 or
Haunebu disc, did he? What do you think his comments would have been
if he flew those craft?


His comments might have been "Ok..it flies, but not nearly as good as a
regular aircraft"

Or, given the problems with stability that were encountered when someone
(Avro Canada, IIRC) actually *built* a disc instead of just making up
stories about them:

"Ooooooooooooohhhh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii..." crunch

HTH.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)

robert arndt wrote:
{snippo ...]

So Andreas there seems to be a lot of proof that the Nazis were
engaged in disc research throughout the entire war.

"Proof"? Come on, gimme a break! You just retold the same old stories and
didn't quote _a single_ source on any of the weirder parts. You only say
"Photos exist" - where? And I mean genuine photos or negatives, which can
be examined for fakery and not - as I already said - blurry digital images
on less-than-reliable websites.

And BTW, patents are no proof whatsoever that something can actually be
built, let alone that it was actually built. You can patent almost
everything as long as it's unique - you do _not_ have to show that your
invention could actually work.

Andreas