Jep p or NACO Charts?

wrote:
One feature of NOS that Jepp doesn't have is the small airport diagram
on each plate, with the final approach track shown.

This can be useful when making a circling approach to a strange
airport, as it gives a pictorial representation of what the pilot will
see as he approaches the field, and helps with planning the circling
maneuver.

On the other hand, Jepp has a full-page airport diagram, even for the
dinkiest of airports.

"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote in message
...
That's $17.00 every 28 days which equals $221/year. If you factor in the
shipping for the charts @ $5 per shipment, that's $65.


I subscribe to NACO and get new ones every 56 days. Why are you getting
them every 28?

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 09:22:50 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

wrote:
One feature of NOS that Jepp doesn't have is the small airport diagram
on each plate, with the final approach track shown.

This can be useful when making a circling approach to a strange
airport, as it gives a pictorial representation of what the pilot will
see as he approaches the field, and helps with planning the circling
maneuver.

On the other hand, Jepp has a full-page airport diagram, even for the
dinkiest of airports.


Yes, but it doesn't provide any useful information for circling
maneuvers, unless you orient the airport diagram to the final approach
track of the approach in question.

It's great for finding your way around on the ground, but by then the
hard part is over.

Mitty wrote:

Take a look at http://www.seattleavionics.com/default.asp


Thanks, Mitty! That's definitely worth a look. I wasn't aware of this product
until you pointed it out. I'll download the trial version when I get home to my
Windows machine. Very nice macromedia demo on their web site, too, worth looking at.

Dave

Judah,
Well, I was mistaken with the $255 price--that was for my Garmin 430 Navdata
service. HOWEVER, after a check with Jepp's website, I was charged only $244
for the revision service. The $330 is for the initial subscription that
includes a full set of charts. The mistake was in favor of my original
point.

That being said, I was erroneous in my assumption that NOS is every 28 days.
It is every 56 days. Kinda takes the wind out of my financial comparison (I
guess that's why I'm in software development and not finance!). You should
note that since chart changes are on a 28-day cycle, NOS is not without its
own updating hassles if you want the most up-to-date information. You'll
need to obtain either the monthly printed Notices to Airman publication or
the "off-cycle" Change Notice, which is issued every 28 days. Most pilots
don't do this but I don't have enough info to give an opinion on if this has
caused angst among frequent IFR flyers. My guess is that most hardcore IFR
people use Jepps partly because Jepp sends out updated charts every two
weeks.

So again, it's up to your situation. If you do infrequent approaches to only
a handful of airports and cost is an issue, then NOS is good enough. If you
want the "greatest and latest" cost be damned, then the preference out there
is Jeppesen.

Marco Leon

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
Hi Marco,
According to Jepp, the Northeast Chart Service lists at $330. If you buy
the East and NorthEast Airway Express services separately, they end up
costing about $30 more... I'm not sure where you're getting them for $255,
but that seems more heavily discounted than what I saw, which for example
on MyPilotStore.com was $320.

However, since I can pretty much buy or download any needed plates
readily,
I don't subscribe to all 4 NorthEast NOS books. I subscribe to #1 and #2,
which gets me ME, NH, VT, MA, CT, RI, NY, and NJ, and covers 90% of my
flying area (and then some). It also covers me for the Long Island/CT
issue.

I guess this is the biggest reason why it ends up being so much less
expensive for me. I don't need the same coverage in NOS as I would with
Jepp.

If I am planning a trip to PA or DC, I will pick up or order the current
#3
or #4 as needed, or maybe even just download my destination plate and a
few
nearby alternatives on the route... If I go that far out of NY, it will be
a planned trip, and if I expect to leave early in the AM or late in the PM
when I can't get a chart from my FBO, I can take a ride the day before, or
order it online in advance... My FBO is staffed from 7am until 7pm
(sometimes later), so it's not usually an issue. So far, in the year since
I got my instrument rating, I bought #4 twice.

Jepp's Airway Express service for East has the same LI/CT problem as NOS,
so I'd still have to buy the $330 Northeast Chart Service subscription.

Instead, I am paying $16.50 every 2 months ($99/yr) for updated IFR
Enroute
L27/28, TERPS NE Vol 1 & 2, and an A/FD. Seems like a no-brainer as far as
price is concerned... Also, the NOS Plates that I'm getting last 56 days,
not 28.

If you add to that the $10 or $15 to go pick up a #3 or #4 once or twice
a
year when I plan a long-distance trip, we're still talking less than half
the Jepp price...



"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote in :

Wow, not one pro for the Jepps. I used to use NOS but switched to Jepps
for the Northeast. Dropping by the pilot shop is not too convenient for
me since I normally get in the air after work, I would get a
subscription to NOS. Let's see, for the same coverage, I would need 4
NOS books @ $4.25 each. That's $17.00 every 28 days which equals
$221/year. If you factor in the shipping for the charts @ $5 per
shipment, that's $65.

So all things being equal (specifically the convenience of delivery
service), we are talking about $286 (NOS) versus $255 (Jepp).

I would start your analysis there according to your situation. Look at:
* if you can easily stop by a pilot shop during business hours every
time you may do an approach
* the possibility of a missed approach to another "NOS book" (e.g.
missed in Long Island, NY with the better weather being in Connecticut)
* preference on the "usability" of the charts. I personally like Jepp
better for their intuitive features
* what your real approach use-profile will be (mostly practice or real
IFR flying, one approach every other month or monthly use, etc.)

NOS is really not a lot cheaper for the same coverage and same service.

Marco Leon
(no affiliation with Jeppesen. Although, even their employees don't get
discounts on charts...)



"Judah" wrote in message
.. .
Last week I finally got checked out in the club's Arrow.

During the training, the instructor noticed that I was using the NACO
charts and plates.

He uses the Jeppeson stuff and excitedly indicated that it is far
superior to the NACO charts. He gave me a few reasons, but when I
looked at it for myself, I just can't figure out how to justify
spending all that extra money for really not all that extra features.

So what do people here think? Are the Jepp charts worth shelling out
the extra money?

I am personally "pro jepp" for my own reasons, but when you want to
compare Jepp service to NOS.. keep in mind with NOS you are discarding
your charts and getting new ones every 56 days wether you use them or not.

The Jepp service being quoted here is (in my estimation) for receiving
biweekly updates that you have to file and replace yourself. You can get
new content every year for $40, or you can keep going with individual
plates as long as they will last (Jepp gives you a number of free
replacement plates in the package for the asking)

I'm sure if you compared apples to apples, and priced the Jepp Service
that sends you complete new sets of plates every 56 days (They call it Q
service, and send additional revisions every two weeks that you can add
in) the Jepp Price will be substantially more (double?) for Q service
than for the "regular" service people compare so readily to NOS.

Dave

Marco Leon wrote:
You're right Paul. I'm sure you can get some deals on it but even at
$3.19/book, and $3.00 shipping, the difference is $205 vs. $255. All the
threads make it seem like Jepps are *much* more expensive and they're really
not. The point is that Jepp's edge in quality (which most agree there is an
edge) is reasonably priced.

Marco Leon




"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

In a previous article, "Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com said:

Let's see, for the same coverage, I would need 4 NOS books @ $4.25 each.

You don't have to pay list. I subscribe through flyairways.com, and pay
$3.19 per NOS book.


That's $17.00 every 28 days which equals $221/year. If you factor in the
shipping for the charts @ $5 per shipment, that's $65.

So all things being equal (specifically the convenience of delivery
service), we are talking about $286 (NOS) versus $255 (Jepp).

Or considerably less for NOS delivered to your door if you actually shop
around a bit.


Personally, 90% of my flying is in New York and Ontario. So I subscribe
to the NOS and Canadian charts I need for that, and when I have a trip to
somewhere else it's easy to pick up another state or two at the local
pilot shop, like I did for Oshkosh or Parent's Weekend at my
step-daughter's college. I tried the Howie Keefe system for approach
charts and found it too much of a pain to keep up to date.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Once you have an emergency, the airplane belongs to the insurance

company.

Concentrate on saving people on the ground, your passengers, and yourself,
in that order. Saving the plane is not on the list."

In article , Marco Leon mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote:
[snip]
(no affiliation with Jeppesen. Although, even their employees don't get
discounts on charts...)

Yes they do.

Mitty wrote:

[snip]

Jepp punch it, and you have your easy-to-handle plates on good quality paper.
It's much, much easier than trying to download plates for yourself.
(Steel Jepp
type punches are $20 from Franklin Covey. $40-50 from Jepp or Sporty's.
And the
Covey ones are good quality and smaller.)

Why? Any office supply store has the 5.5 x 8.5 3-ring binders which are
*exactly* the same size as Jepp binders -- just not with 7 rings.
Adjust a 3-ring punch for the smaller binder and punch your own.
A 3-hole punch ranges from $5 on up.

Even better than a plain three-ring binder. I use a cheap time organizer. I
throw most of the guts away and keep some of the divider tabs and the
plastic pouches. It's got pockets inside and out. And it zips up.

I put the charts I think I'm going to need in my planner binder - my own
checklists, scrap paper, Jepp manual charts, etc. I usually carry other Jepp
binders around in their own bag in the back seat. I just switched to
JeppView so I'll have to be more careful about what charts I print and carry
in my binder. But my useful load just went up by 20 pounds.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
"Blanche" wrote in message
...
Mitty wrote:

[snip]

Jepp punch it, and you have your easy-to-handle plates on good quality
paper.
It's much, much easier than trying to download plates for yourself.
(Steel Jepp
type punches are $20 from Franklin Covey. $40-50 from Jepp or Sporty's.
And the
Covey ones are good quality and smaller.)

Why? Any office supply store has the 5.5 x 8.5 3-ring binders which are
*exactly* the same size as Jepp binders -- just not with 7 rings.
Adjust a 3-ring punch for the smaller binder and punch your own.
A 3-hole punch ranges from $5 on up.

wrote:

Yes, but it doesn't provide any useful information for circling
maneuvers, unless you orient the airport diagram to the final approach
track of the approach in question.

It's great for finding your way around on the ground, but by then the
hard part is over.

Well....that isn't always true. With the number of dangerous runway
incursions at many airports the hardest part, at least for a competent
instrument pilot, can be avoiding the land mines on the airport surface.

This is were Jeppesen shines in the high-end birds that have
JeppView/FliteDeck with geo-referenced electronic maps. The airport diagram
becomes an awesome ground operations tool with that little green wedgie
moving along the chart.