Casting Four Individual VW Heads

Once you cast the heads unfinned with the ports laid out in the desired
configuration, what would prevent you from using an electroplating
method to grow the fins out, with the air gap pattern between the fins
blocked out to prevent metal deposition? Then grow them out to the
extent desired, or larger and grind them down based on testing.

A.L.
Phoenix

On Jan 18, 9:41*am, " wrote:
On Jan 18, 2:00*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

why does steve bennett's name ring a bell? is he 'great planes'?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, unfortunately we failed to connect
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We connected today. Had a very nice visit, including a tour of the
shop, varmint gunnery program, engine building and hummingbird
offensives. Given a bit more time we might have touched on
airplanes :-)

-Bob

On Jan 16, 4:08*pm, " wrote:

Based on the parting-line flash of new, stock heads, they are cast
using two molds. *To cast INDIVIDUAL heads it will take at least THREE
molds of FOUR different types. *Anyone having actual experience with
finned aluminum castings is encouraged to offer their opinion.

-Bob Hoover

I'm still of the opinion that lost foam is the way to go. To this end
I have been trying to get my hands on some more UN-expanded styrene
beads. (Bean bag foam doesn't have any puffy stuff left in it) Seems
that EPS beads are no longer available in small retail quantities as
they have been deemed hazardous by some alphabet bureaucrat somewhere
and the result is the hazmat fee is more than the beads. That and I
read some duck hunter blew up his kitchen.

If someone knows of a source I'm interested. I'd prefer to not have
to buy a whole pallet load, but if that is what it takes to get it
here.............................
========================
Leon McAtee

wrote:

I'm still of the opinion that lost foam is the way to go. To this end
I have been trying to get my hands on some more UN-expanded styrene
beads. (Bean bag foam doesn't have any puffy stuff left in it) Seems
that EPS beads are no longer available in small retail quantities as
they have been deemed hazardous by some alphabet bureaucrat somewhere
and the result is the hazmat fee is more than the beads. That and I
read some duck hunter blew up his kitchen.

If someone knows of a source I'm interested. I'd prefer to not have
to buy a whole pallet load, but if that is what it takes to get it
here.............................
========================
Leon McAtee

Where's the company that sells the stuff? Maybe one of us are near them
and would be wiling to pick them up for you and ship them to you in a
plain brown wrapper...

Tony

On Jan 19, 10:59*pm, Anthony W wrote:

Where's the company that sells the stuff?

That's the trick. I don't know, other than Dow and some other primary
manufacturers. So far the e-mails have either bounced or come back
"sorry can't help"

*Maybe one of us are near them
and would be wiling to pick them up for you and ship them to you in a
plain brown wrapper...

Tony
==========================
Leon McAtee

wrote in message
...
On Jan 16, 4:08 pm, " wrote:

Based on the parting-line flash of new, stock heads, they are cast
using two molds. To cast INDIVIDUAL heads it will take at least THREE
molds of FOUR different types. Anyone having actual experience with
finned aluminum castings is encouraged to offer their opinion.

-Bob Hoover

I'm still of the opinion that lost foam is the way to go. To this end
I have been trying to get my hands on some more UN-expanded styrene
beads. (Bean bag foam doesn't have any puffy stuff left in it) Seems
that EPS beads are no longer available in small retail quantities as
they have been deemed hazardous by some alphabet bureaucrat somewhere
and the result is the hazmat fee is more than the beads. That and I
read some duck hunter blew up his kitchen.

If someone knows of a source I'm interested. I'd prefer to not have
to buy a whole pallet load, but if that is what it takes to get it
here.............................
========================
Leon McAtee


Perhaps I'm missing something, but why not just CNC machine an existing foam
block?
I realize CNC time is expensive, but I would expect the tool speed to be
much, much higher cutting foam than cutting billet aluminum, and the cost of
the discarded material would be less.

As I understand it (and it's a fairly tenuous understanding), the idea of
the lost foam is that you pack the sand around the foam, and when the molten
aluminum pours in, the foam goes away because of the heat, leaving the sand
form in place, but maintaining the sand's geometry until the metal get
there.

I understand the car manufacturers do it as a two-step process, making a
mold for the foam pieces, then using the molded foam to make the part.

But for low quantity production, carving the foam from CAD files seems like
it might be practical.

Tim Ward

On Jan 20, 9:10*pm, "Tim Ward" wrote:

Perhaps I'm missing something, but why not just CNC machine an existing foam
block?

If you have ever tried to mill 2 pound foam you would understand :-)
It tends to tear and the "chips" cling to everything with static
electricity.

I realize CNC time is expensive, but I would expect the tool speed to be
much, much higher cutting foam than cutting billet aluminum, and the cost of
the discarded material would be less.

Actually for the project that is being hashed out CNC just might be
the best way to do it for the average home builder. No one would have
to have anything cast, just down load some G code from a file and have
any old CNC shop make a head............... But casting is the cheap
way for those of us that have the tools to do it. If I had a 5 axis
mill in my shop I'd already be working on the G code. Who knows,
maybe once we get a proven set of head castings someone with a
digitizer might just make the required files available as freeware???

As I understand it (and it's a fairly tenuous understanding), the idea of
the lost foam is that you pack the sand around the foam, and when the molten
aluminum pours in, the foam goes away because of the heat, leaving the sand
form in place, but maintaining the sand's geometry until the metal get
there.

You have a pretty good grasp of the essentials. One Advantage of lost
foam is that once you make up the tooling to make the foam castings
you can make things pretty quickly - and with fantastic detail. Time
wise it can be quicker than CNC and you can do some things that just
can't be done with CNC, like water jackets in a head.
========================
Leon McAtee

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:03:36 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 20, 9:10=A0pm, "Tim Ward" wrote:

Perhaps I'm missing something, but why not just CNC machine an existing f=
oam
block?

If you have ever tried to mill 2 pound foam you would understand :-)
It tends to tear and the "chips" cling to everything with static
electricity.

I realize CNC time is expensive, but I would expect the tool speed to be
much, much higher cutting foam than cutting billet aluminum, and the cost=
of
the discarded material would be less.

Actually for the project that is being hashed out CNC just might be
the best way to do it for the average home builder. No one would have
to have anything cast, just down load some G code from a file and have
any old CNC shop make a head............... But casting is the cheap
way for those of us that have the tools to do it. If I had a 5 axis
mill in my shop I'd already be working on the G code. Who knows,
maybe once we get a proven set of head castings someone with a
digitizer might just make the required files available as freeware???

As I understand it (and it's a fairly tenuous understanding), the idea of
the lost foam is that you pack the sand around the foam, and when the mol=
ten
aluminum pours in, the foam goes away because of the heat, leaving the sa=
nd
form in place, but maintaining the sand's geometry until the metal get
there.

You have a pretty good grasp of the essentials. One Advantage of lost
foam is that once you make up the tooling to make the foam castings
you can make things pretty quickly - and with fantastic detail. Time
wise it can be quicker than CNC and you can do some things that just
can't be done with CNC, like water jackets in a head.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Leon McAtee

Fascinating reading. You guys have metal working skills way beyond my
experience. So maybe this is a stupid question but might it be easier
to add a water jacket to an existing head

"Tim Ward" wrote in message
...


The biggest obstacle to CNC machining is down inside the ports. While it is
done every day, it requires more tooling than most economical CNC shops
possess, and would probably add greatly to a job as small as four heads.

On Jan 21, 7:13*am, (Drew Dalgleish)
wrote:
So maybe this is a stupid question but might it be easier
to add a water jacket to an existing head

Not a stupid question at all. In fact it has been done to the air-
cooled VW head and isn't all that hard. Far less work than making a
casting. IMHO water cooled aircraft engines have some real
advantages.

BUT..............

There are lots of individuals that prefer the simplicity and
reliability of an air-cooled noise maker.
===========================
Leon McAtee