Jon Johanson stranded in Antartica....

"Andrew Rowley" wrote in message
...
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:
My understanding is he wasn't actually planning to go there. There are
probably a number of problems with shipping fuel to places you are not
planning to go, just in case:
- it's expensive to ship it there
- you may have to ship it out again if you don't use it - I'm not sure
whether they would let you leave it there indefinitely

I doubt that they would even accept the shipment, so the question is
academic. In dealing with bureaucracy, sometimes it is better to ask
forgiveness than to ask for permission that will surely be refused. That is
obviously the tack that Johanson chose, and probably the only reasonable
choice if one insists on making the attempt. Unfortunately for him, the
bureaucracy has chosen to play hardball in this instance.

Vaughn

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:26:37 +0000,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:



Yeah, but to not even sell the guy fuel is bad form......

*WHY* ??

I'd suggest it is far _worse_ form for the PIC *not* to have "made sure of"
the necessary resources =in=advance=/


If a pilot makes an "emergency" (or otherwise) landing in a farmer's field,
is that farmer obligated in any way to sell him fuel from his farm holding
tank, so he can fly the plane back out?

What, if *anything*, is different about the two scenarios?

Presumably, Jon *knew* he was going to need fuel when he got there.

WHY DIDN'T HE MAKE ADVANCE ARRANGEMENTS to ship _his_own_ fuel there?

What 'flight services' were listed as available at that location?
Betcha it's "no services".


Robert
the flight plan as I know of it was for a direct flight, no stops, New
Zealand, South Pole, Argentina

when you go out for a local flight do you have fuel stashed every ten
miles ? or do you plan on returning to an airfield with fuel supplies?

Jon made all the preparations necessary but was caught by headwinds
that were not anything like forecast.

The guy has stainless steel courage and a precise methodical approach
to his flight planning. he is well aware that a ditching anywhere
along the route would see him dead from hypothermia within 15 minutes.
to do what he does takes a rare courage.

**** happens occasionally. lets hope that when it happens to you there
are compasionate humans around to help you.
from experience I can tell you that breaking an aeroplane 1,500 miles
from home can make you the lonliest guy on the planet. you can make a
lot of good friends in times like those. ....or you can be screwed by
arseholes.

I hope you get a chance to meet him. he's a top guy. for his
inspirational courage we made him a life member of the Sport Aircraft
Association of Australia

Stealth Pilot
Australia

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:02:10 -0500, "Jimmy Galvin"
wrote:

You can not possibly believe that there was "exploratory spirit" involved
here. He was not blazing new frontiers.

As it would have been a record setting flight, yes he would have been
setting new frontiers. The man has flown around the world twice now,
if for nothing more than self satisfaction, then so be it.

It was simply a publicity stunt that

People climb Mt Everest just for the accomplishment. There is nothing
wrong with that.

was only meant as a means of self promotion. Not one person on this planet
would have benefited other than himself had he pulled it off. He screwed up
by not being prepared and it is up to him to bail himself out.

Many, many times people end up in similar situations here in the
states, but some one comes to the rescue. No, they aren't record
setting flights, but high winds have forced landings at airports where
services were not to be found.

Suddenly finding your self in "unforecast" bad weather and having to
land at an airport with nothing more than a telephone and no heat in
the very small terminal building that is no more than a shed leaves a
pilot feeling overwhelmed. Been there and done that. Called FSS who
still thought the weather was as forecast.

Landing on an icy runway at an unattended airport far from home only
to have the nose wheel break... Happened to one of our members...
Fortunately their cell phone worked and they had a directory of
members in that area. They were stuck for a couple of days. One of
the guys out there took the nose wheel off his LongEZ so they could
get out. No one was obligated, but offering a part of your own
airplane goes a bit beyond offering gas.

Fortunately most pilots and most people have more compassion than the
NSF although there are a few narrow minded ones who can't understand
how any one could get into trouble paying attention. It doesn't
matter how well you plan, **** happens.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers


"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:26:37 +0000,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

In article ,
ET wrote:
"Jimmy Galvin" wrote in
:

You can offer all apologies all you want but only for yourself. Don't
talk for me. I feel that he took a chance for glory, self promotion,
stupidity, or whatever and ended up with his tit caught in the
wringer. It is not up to me and my tax dollars to bail his sorry ass
out of the jamb he inflected on himself. This goes for all those fools
that climb mountains, trek through caves, or go exploring in the woods
relying on a GPS with 1/2 dead batteries to guide them along. They
should all just be left to their own devices and hopefully receive a
Darwin Award for their efforts.

Yup, what ever happened to compassion and the exploratory spirit.?

You can offer all apologies all you want but only for yourself. Don't
talk for me. I feel that he took a chance for glory, self promotion,
stupidity, or whatever and ended up with his tit caught in the
wringer. It is not up to me and my tax dollars to bail his sorry ass
out of the jamb he inflected on himself. This goes for all those fools
that climb mountains, trek through caves, or go exploring in the woods
relying on a GPS with 1/2 dead batteries to guide them along. They
should all just be left to their own devices and hopefully receive a
Darwin Award for their efforts.

Sounds like your idea of a good time is to sit on your fat ass and
do nothing. People with attitudes like yours are worthless. I hope
next time you need help you tell the people that come to help you
that you do not want their help because through your own stupidity
your ass is so fat you cannot fit through the door to go out into life
and enjoy it.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:02:10 -0500, "Jimmy Galvin"
wrote:




You can offer all apologies all you want but only for yourself. Don't
talk for me. I feel that he took a chance for glory, self promotion,
stupidity, or whatever and ended up with his tit caught in the
wringer. It is not up to me and my tax dollars to bail his sorry ass
out of the jamb he inflected on himself. This goes for all those fools
that climb mountains, trek through caves, or go exploring in the woods
relying on a GPS with 1/2 dead batteries to guide them along. They
should all just be left to their own devices and hopefully receive a
Darwin Award for their efforts.

Sounds like your idea of a good time is to sit on your fat ass and
do nothing. People with attitudes like yours are worthless. I hope
next time you need help you tell the people that come to help you
that you do not want their help because through your own stupidity
your ass is so fat you cannot fit through the door to go out into life
and enjoy it.

In article ,
"Jimmy Galvin" wrote:

You can not possibly believe that there was "exploratory spirit" involved
here. He was not blazing new frontiers. It was simply a publicity stunt that
was only meant as a means of self promotion. Not one person on this planet
would have benefited other than himself had he pulled it off. He screwed up
by not being prepared and it is up to him to bail himself out.



Oh, give us a break, Jimmy!

The bureaucrats at McMurdo are simply being jerks of the first order!
How many people on this planet benefit from such obstinate behavior?
They should allow him to get 80 gallons of fuel, get his weather reports
and get going! How difficult is that to do?

I am getting sick and tired of Jimmy's sanctimonious acting as an
apologist for NSA -- they are proving to be nothing but a bunch of
useless bureaucrats, with no compassion or sense of real-world existence.

WHY DIDN'T HE MAKE ADVANCE ARRANGEMENTS to ship _his_own_ fuel there?

Using that rational, everyone should ship repair parts and tools to possible
landing places like The Oshkosh convention just in case they have a problem.
--
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh

Editor, EAA Safety Programs
or

Always looking for articles for the Experimenter

Cy Galley wrote:
WHY DIDN'T HE MAKE ADVANCE ARRANGEMENTS to ship _his_own_ fuel there?


Using that rational, everyone should ship repair parts and tools to possible
landing places like The Oshkosh convention just in case they have a problem.
--
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh

Editor, EAA Safety Programs
or

Always looking for articles for the Experimenter


Good one Cy, I like that thinking. :-)

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:15:59 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:

In article ,

I am getting sick and tired of Jimmy's sanctimonious acting as an
apologist for NSA -- they are proving to be nothing but a bunch of
useless bureaucrats, with no compassion or sense of real-world existence.

I *think* you mean "NSF", the National Science Foundation that is the US's
interest in Antarctica. The "NSA" is another kettle of fish entirely....

NSF: http://www.nsf.gov
NSA: http://www.nsa.gov

BTW, I happened to read further on that book by the ex-Navy C-130 pilot:
The gasoline shipped to the Antarctic for the snow machines *does* have
anti-freezing additives. However, since Johanson may have built his fuel
system to handle alcohol, since he was planning on buying fuel all around
the world.

Ron Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote ...
BTW, I happened to read further on that book by the ex-Navy C-130 pilot:
The gasoline shipped to the Antarctic for the snow machines *does* have
anti-freezing additives. However, since Johanson may have built his fuel
system to handle alcohol, since he was planning on buying fuel all around
the world.

Ron,

As base commander, do you sell him snowmobile gas for the return trip? He
wants it and the plane may (or may not) be legal to use it under certain
circumstances , but don't you have to accept legal liability for selling him
non-aviation fuel? Particularly on a trip that's entirely over water in
very cold conditions. If Johanson didn't make it home wouldn't there be
entire legions of lawyers waiting to sue the US Government for supplying him
the wrong type of fuel? Or would it be better to say "There's a supply ship
here in a month. Ship the plane home that way."

How much research has been done in using autogas in airplanes in antartic
conditions?

Rich