They really *are* shooting at the helicopters...

"Matt Barrow" wrote:

In the aftermath of the 1900 Galveston storm, looting was widespread.
...
Commercial boat owners formed a trust and charged extortionate prices
to
ferry desperate refugees to the mainland.

Do you have a cite for this last one? I've heard just the opposite.

http://lowery.tamu.edu/personal/song...m/1900strm.htm

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:wsKRe.301427$x96.41584@attbi_s72...
This just in from the AP:
*********************************************
But across the flooded-out city, the rescuers themselves came under attack
from storm victims.
"Hospitals are trying to evacuate," said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri
Ben-Iesan, spokesman at the city emergency operations center. "At every
one of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are
shooting at them. There are people just taking potshots at police and at
helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"
*********************************************

Unbelievable.

Right, which calls for due skepticism before believing it. In another thread
here, Rick just posted a link to an article by National Post colmnist Matt
Welch titled "The Deadly Bigotry of Low Expectations? Did the rumor mill
help kill Katrina victims?". The article challenges several key rumors about
the extent of the violence in N.O., including:

**********
And it's entirely possible that, like the chimeric Baton Rouge hordes,
exaggerations about New Orleans' criminality affected policy, mostly by
delaying rescue operations and the provision of aid. Relief efforts ground
to a halt last week after reports circulated of looters shooting at
helicopters, yet none of the hundreds of articles I read on the subject
contained a single first-hand confirmation from a pilot or eyewitness. The
suspension-triggering attack-on a military Chinook attempting to evacuate
refugees from the Superdome-was contested by Federal Aviation Administration
spokeswoman Laura Brown, who told ABC News, "We're controlling every single
aircraft in that airspace and none of them reported being fired on." What's
more, when asked about the attacks, Department of Homeland Security
Secretary Michael Chertoff replied: "I haven't actually received a confirmed
report of someone firing on a helicopter."
http://www.reason.com/links/links090605.shtml
**********

Or concerning the stories of children raped and murdered in the superdome
bathrooms:

**********
"We don't have any substantiated rapes," New Orleans Police superintendent
Edwin Compass said yesterday, according to the Guardian. "We will
investigate if the individuals come forward." The British paper further
pointed out that, "While many claim they happened, no witnesses, survivors
or survivors' relatives have come forward. Nor has the source for the story
of the murdered babies, or indeed their bodies, been found. And while the
floor of the convention centre toilets were indeed covered in excrement, the
Guardian found no corpses."
[same link]
**********

Obviously there was violence in N.O., and perhaps even some of the worst
horror stories will turn out to be true. But we should be in no rush to
believe those stories without proof.

--Gary

Someone just got charged with shooting at a chopper.

http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive...D8CEVR5O3.html

I wonder how they'll be able to proove his guilt, he could just say
that he was shooting out the window in another direction.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

"Flyingmonk" wrote in message
ups.com...
Someone just got charged with shooting at a chopper.

http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive...D8CEVR5O3.html

I wonder how they'll be able to proove his guilt, he could just say
that he was shooting out the window in another direction.

The article does not make a remotely convincing case that he was shooting at
a helicopter (see my response to your post in the other helicopter thread).
We'll see though.

--Gary

kontiki wrote:
What we are witnessing is a result of several generations of breeding a
type
of individual that expects government to take care of their every need from
cradle to grave, with no requirement of any level of responsibility on
their
part... then when there is an interruption of flow from the nipple they
get angry.

Yes indeed. Generation of breeding... starting in shackles and chains
on stinking slave ships where food was shoveled and water splashed.
Once broken under the whip and rod, docility was bred. Those that
escaped or resisted were killed or deliberately maimed ensuring only the
proper behaviour was passed on.

When the horror became too much for this dear country, the government
passed laws to free and yet clearly keep certain people limited in the
roles in society. Customs and common sense were also expected. Lynching
was used for those that didn't follow customs or exhibit the proper
common sense.

When the unfairness of that situation became too much for this dear
country, we changed the laws and offered equality and tried to remedy
generations of 'breeding' with an extensive welfare system, and other
government programs.

When the unfairness of that situation became too much for this dear
country, we changed the laws and dismantled those programs.

Unfortunately, some of those *******s are still somehow effected by all
that breeding and history. If they'd just grab their own bootstraps and
get on with it. What's the hell is the problem?

Cub Driver wrote:
I can't get out of my mind the image of the woman
who glares at the camera and says flatly: "I need my insulin." I might
be wrong, and I'm sorry for anyone who has to put up with diabetes,
but it seems to me that she has spent her life having her needs
delivered to her by government servants at taxpayer expense.


You clearly aren't "sorry for anyone who has to put up with diabetes"
(as if it were some minor annoyance and not a life-threatening
disease!). As a father of a type-1 diabetic, I can assure you that
insulin for a diabetic is as critical for survival as oxygen, food,
water, etc. Insulin must be kept refrigerated, which might be a
challenge when there is no electricity for days/weeks at a time. If a
natural disaster were to hit my home area and our supply of insulin was
destroyed, I can't promise that I wouldn't "glare at the camera and say
flatly: I need insulin for my daughter". Wanting to live or keep
loved-ones alive makes us do such extreme things! But I'm guessing you
don't have any life-threatening diseases, and have likely never
encountered any "real" hardship in your life. You are simply... better
than the general population, since you don't rely on any governement
sevices (servants) and cost us taxpayers nothing.

I have seen many images of people during the Katrina aftermath that
have made me ashamed of the human race. The image of the woman
pleading for medicine that is necessary to keep her alive is not one of
them...

snip of great stuff

Unfortunately, some of those *******s are still somehow effected by all
that breeding and history. If they'd just grab their own bootstraps and
get on with it. What's the hell is the problem?

A well-written treatise, to be sure -- but I'd like to clarify something
he Are you implying that the problems of the underclass are due to
genetics?

If so, I would like to vehemently disagree. IMHO, this is a cultural --
not a racial -- problem.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

No. I just borrowed that abhorrent term "breeding". It's what kicked
of the treatise. Think 'cultural breeding' or just plain 'American
history' which is so easy to forget and ignore.

I constantly hear about the "values of our founding fathers" and I
think about those values that were specifically aimed and violently
enforced upon a very specific segment of our population by same
'fathers'. It's just history but so often ignored and minimized in
these sometimes thoughtless threads.

Why do I dislike off topic? Because too much of it is offensive to too
many. I can go to the local bar to debate this stuff. The airport bar
if I want to do it with pilots.

Jay Honeck wrote:
snip of great stuff

Unfortunately, some of those *******s are still somehow effected by all
that breeding and history. If they'd just grab their own bootstraps and
get on with it. What's the hell is the problem?


A well-written treatise, to be sure -- but I'd like to clarify something
he Are you implying that the problems of the underclass are due to
genetics?

If so, I would like to vehemently disagree. IMHO, this is a cultural --
not a racial -- problem.

wrote in message
ps.com...

Cub Driver wrote:
I can't get out of my mind the image of the woman
who glares at the camera and says flatly: "I need my insulin." I might
be wrong, and I'm sorry for anyone who has to put up with diabetes,
but it seems to me that she has spent her life having her needs
delivered to her by government servants at taxpayer expense.


You clearly aren't "sorry for anyone who has to put up with diabetes"
(as if it were some minor annoyance and not a life-threatening
disease!). As a father of a type-1 diabetic, I can assure you that
insulin for a diabetic is as critical for survival as oxygen, food,
water, etc. Insulin must be kept refrigerated, which might be a
challenge when there is no electricity for days/weeks at a time. If a
natural disaster were to hit my home area and our supply of insulin was
destroyed, I can't promise that I wouldn't "glare at the camera and say
flatly: I need insulin for my daughter".

How about when you know a disaster is coming you plan accordingly and have
alternatives ready?

How about REQUESTING help, rather than demanding it like a spolied brat?

Wanting to live or keep
loved-ones alive makes us do such extreme things! But I'm guessing you
don't have any life-threatening diseases, and have likely never
encountered any "real" hardship in your life. You are simply... better
than the general population, since you don't rely on any governement
sevices (servants) and cost us taxpayers nothing.

You've completely missed his point which was not so much about diabetics,
but about those who use them to become dependant, then demand resolution.

My condolences for you daughter, but you're her worst enemy if you're
preparing her for such dependancy.

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
news
No. I just borrowed that abhorrent term "breeding". It's what kicked of
the treatise. Think 'cultural breeding' or just plain 'American history'
which is so easy to forget and ignore.

I constantly hear about the "values of our founding fathers" and I think
about those values that were specifically aimed and violently enforced
upon a very specific segment of our population by same 'fathers'.

If you lived in those times, you'd have done much worse, I suspect.

You know, as one grows in knowledge and maturity one _usually_ gathers a
great sense of context. That is one major facet of the maturing process.

You missed a whole bunch of it.