barrel roll in 172

"Stefan" wrote

The first safety rule of aviation I've learnt was "never assume".
Reading this group, it seems that many pilots are assuming an awful lot.

Surely you do understand where we are coming from. An ounce of prevention
is better than a pound of death by crash.
--
Jim in NC

Stefan wrote:

Morgans schrieb:

Don't encourage that type of behavior with a yes.


Where did he write that he wants top try it? He was just wondering.

and a blown barrel roll could stall the plane,


Gee... and then fall out of the sky in pieces, I assume. I wonder what
your comment would have been if a journalist had written this.

I'll bet he is not going to wear a parachute, either, which is required.


No. As it's illegal to do barrel roll a 172, there can't be a legal
requirement to wear a chute while doing so.

You obviously aren't very familiar with the IRS. You are required to
report and pay taxes on money gained illegally. :-)

Matt

mikeytag wrote:

Would you really feel safe going inverted in a gravity fed fuel system? The
172 is probably not the best choice for this type of maneuver, although you
could probably pull it off if you rolled quick enough.

It isn't gravity that feeds the fuel, it is force caused by
acceleration. Gravity can be the source of acceleration, but it doesn't
have to be the source. In a loop, intertial force can be the source.
I've flown a loop in a 150 and its fuel system had no problem when
inverted at the top of the loop.


Matt

Dudley Henriques wrote:

Scotty McCray flew a Schweizer 2-22 EK for his demonstrations. We appeared
at the same shows many many times and I knew him quite well.
The 2-22 wasn't exactly the "cleanest" glider in the world by today's
standards. Scotty was an absolute master at energy control. His technique
for energy management was in my opinion the best I've ever seen done in an
unpowered aircraft. I think I watched Scotty perform hundreds of barrel
rolls in the 2-22 and never once did I see him dish it out of a roll.
Strangely enough, it was the addition of horsepower to his aerobatics that
killed him down in Brazil in 73, when the Decathlon he dished out of a low
altitude roll.
One of the nicest and finest guys I knew in aviation.
Dudley Henriques

What does "dished out" mean?

Matt

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

Dudley Henriques wrote:

Scotty McCray flew a Schweizer 2-22 EK for his demonstrations. We appeared
at the same shows many many times and I knew him quite well.
The 2-22 wasn't exactly the "cleanest" glider in the world by today's
standards. Scotty was an absolute master at energy control. His technique
for energy management was in my opinion the best I've ever seen done in an
unpowered aircraft. I think I watched Scotty perform hundreds of barrel
rolls in the 2-22 and never once did I see him dish it out of a roll.
Strangely enough, it was the addition of horsepower to his aerobatics that
killed him down in Brazil in 73, when the Decathlon he dished out of a low
altitude roll.
One of the nicest and finest guys I knew in aviation.
Dudley Henriques

What does "dished out" mean?

Matt, this and your previous post show you do not have a broad knowledge
of the world of aerobatics. Please do not dispute those that do.
Your condescending tone is most inappropriate.

In article ,
"Morgans" wrote:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't an aileron roll a negative 1 G
maneuver? You spin on an axis, through the plane's center of gravity. For
an instant, the pilot is upside down, hanging by the belt.

Inertia, centrifugal force. Think three dimensional. You do not have to
maintain level flight. Pick a down-line. Altitude and gravity are your
friends, put the nose down. :-))

Morgans schrieb:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't an aileron roll a negative 1 G
maneuver? You spin on an axis, through the plane's center of gravity. For
an instant, the pilot is upside down, hanging by the belt.

No. This is called a slow roll or simply a roll.

The 707 roll was indeed a barrel roll. Check it out on Jay's webpage.

Hardly an authoritative source.

Stefan

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

Scotty McCray flew a Schweizer 2-22 EK for his demonstrations. We
appeared at the same shows many many times and I knew him quite well.
The 2-22 wasn't exactly the "cleanest" glider in the world by today's
standards. Scotty was an absolute master at energy control. His technique
for energy management was in my opinion the best I've ever seen done in
an unpowered aircraft. I think I watched Scotty perform hundreds of
barrel rolls in the 2-22 and never once did I see him dish it out of a
roll.
Strangely enough, it was the addition of horsepower to his aerobatics
that killed him down in Brazil in 73, when the Decathlon he dished out of
a low altitude roll.
One of the nicest and finest guys I knew in aviation.
Dudley Henriques

What does "dished out" mean?

Matt

When you do a roll, the second half of the roll requires changing rudder and
blending stick in elevator and aileron. If you are late on the rudder
change, or late on the elevator blending out from forward elevator to back
elevator, its possible to allow the airplane to change from rolling on its
longitudinal axis to an arc through the back side recovery. Basically what
happens is that you "slide" off the roll axis and widen the roll nose low
through the arc. In effect, you are changing the aircraft's roll axis from a
controlled slow roll to an aileron roll format, which is primarily aileron
and allows the nose to arc naturally during the roll unlike the slow roll
format where the airplane is "flown" through the entire roll from the roll
initiation at the apex of the pull on the airplane's longitudinal axis.
We call this coming in late and allowing this to happen on the back side
"dishing out" of the roll. Allowing this to happen is one of the major
killers, if not THE major killer of pilots doing low altitude roll
maneuvers.
Not allowing dishout on a roll is so critical in low altitude demonstration
work that when I practiced slow rolls for demonstration purposes, I would
set the airplane on the roll apex at it's inverted nose attitude while right
side up after a pull to the set point from a point where the altimeter
needle was covering the 0 on the altimeter, then roll the airplane from the
initiation point returning the needle to recover the 0 again as level flight
was achieved again on recovery. Any deviation from that standard was
considered a blown roll, and the entire practice session would have to be
re-flown.
Dudley Henriques

Matt Whiting wrote:

Your thousands of hours aside, this is simply an incorrect statement. A
barrel roll requires flying a loop and you can't fly a loop at 1 G. It
sounds like you are describing an aileron roll.

The descriptions from the aerobatic website, it appears, disagree with your
understanding of a barrel roll and aileron roll:

http://www.iac.org/begin/figures.html#Aileron%20Rolls


--
Peter

Morgans wrote

The 707 roll was indeed a barrel roll. Check it out on Jay's webpage.

Again....check the definition of a "barrel roll" at the web site posted
by Peter and my previous post. Big John, dispite his thousands of hours,
simply doesn't know what a "barrel roll" is. I'll put my Navy training and
22,000 hours and ATP/CFI ratings up against his anyday. :-) I've been
waiting for two years for John to post an authoritative source for his
concept of a "barrel roll".

http://www.iac.org/begin/figures.html#Aileron%20Rolls