Engine failure

I had a situation yesterday at the end of my local "just because" flight
(you know, one of those where you really have no place to go but the weather
is favourable and you just want to go flying).

Was flying a rental 172. Took off like a rocket (lightly loaded solo...
cold air about freezing), tooled around practicing stalls, steep turns, etc.
Headed back to the pattern and did a couple of touch and goes. On my final
landing, I declared a full stop, and decided I would practice a short field
landing. I cleared the "imaginary" 50 ft. obstacle, dropped the last notch
of flaps and cut power... and the engine quit. No issues, because I had the
runway made (I didn't even realize that the engine had quit until rolling on
the runway... I knew something sounded different, but the prop was still
windmilling and I was concentrating on the flare).

I rolled out and the prop stopped, and I called traffic (uncontrolled
airport) to let them know I was a sitting duck. Checked the primer
(locked), mixture (full rich), fuel selector (both... and lots of fuel... I
filled up with only just over an hour of flight since), and restarted with
no problems and taxied off the runway.

Though it turned out to be no danger, I couldn't help but feel a little
disconcerted. A low level power off descent away from the airport could
have had a more serious outcome, or what if I misjudged and didn't have the
runway made when I cut power?

I taxied to the maintenance hanger (after being directed there by the FBO
via radio notification of the situation), and explained what happened to the
maintenance guy. He said that there is a stop on the throttle to keep the
idle setting from being too low that probably needed adjustment. Even so,
during shutdown (after restarting), idle setting on the throttle was still
800 - 900 RPM, which should be enough to keep the engine running I would
think.

Anyone else experienced this and can share their thoughts? I'm about a 60
hour pilot, so not much experience.

Jase,
Do you remember putting the carb heat when cutting power? It sounded
like carb ice problem to me.

Hai Longworth

Jase Vanover wrote:

I had a situation yesterday at the end of my local "just because" flight
(you know, one of those where you really have no place to go but the weather
is favourable and you just want to go flying).

Was flying a rental 172. Took off like a rocket (lightly loaded solo...
cold air about freezing), tooled around practicing stalls, steep turns, etc.
Headed back to the pattern and did a couple of touch and goes. On my final
landing, I declared a full stop, and decided I would practice a short field
landing. I cleared the "imaginary" 50 ft. obstacle, dropped the last notch
of flaps and cut power... and the engine quit. No issues, because I had the
runway made (I didn't even realize that the engine had quit until rolling on
the runway... I knew something sounded different, but the prop was still
windmilling and I was concentrating on the flare).

I rolled out and the prop stopped, and I called traffic (uncontrolled
airport) to let them know I was a sitting duck. Checked the primer
(locked), mixture (full rich), fuel selector (both... and lots of fuel... I
filled up with only just over an hour of flight since), and restarted with
no problems and taxied off the runway.

Though it turned out to be no danger, I couldn't help but feel a little
disconcerted. A low level power off descent away from the airport could
have had a more serious outcome, or what if I misjudged and didn't have the
runway made when I cut power?

I taxied to the maintenance hanger (after being directed there by the FBO
via radio notification of the situation), and explained what happened to the
maintenance guy. He said that there is a stop on the throttle to keep the
idle setting from being too low that probably needed adjustment. Even so,
during shutdown (after restarting), idle setting on the throttle was still
800 - 900 RPM, which should be enough to keep the engine running I would
think.

Anyone else experienced this and can share their thoughts? I'm about a 60
hour pilot, so not much experience.

I don't see any mention of carb heat being applied during your descent.
Cessna's are rather prone to carb icing and carb heat has been on the
descent and landing checklist of every Cessna model I've flown (150, 172
and 182). If you didn't have carb heat applied, then I'd suspect carb
icing.

The other thing many training guides (atleast the older ones that I own)
recommend is to "clear the engine" periodically duing long descents to
prevent the engine from "loading up and stalling." I'll admit to never
having developed this practice and never having had a problem with an
engine stalling during a long descent, however, I suspect it is possible
otherwise these warnings would be completely baseless.


Matt

It sounded
like carb ice problem to me.

Doesn't sound like carb ice to me.

Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

Longworth wrote:

It sounded like carb ice problem to me.

If it were carb ice, the engine would not have restarted easily.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

George,
The restart did not happen right after the engine had quit but on
the ground after landing. It is possible the ice melted in the interval
thus allowed 'normal' start.

If you don't think it was carb ice, what would be other potential
causes?

Hai Longworth

I had a situation in the Shenandoah Valley where, during runup when I
checked smooth operation at idle, the engine quit. It started up easily
enough, but quit again at idle. Taxiied back, went to the shop and they
poked around with the plugs and a few other things, finding nothing.
Their theory was that it was carb ice.

Never had carb ice on the ground before.

Several hours later I took off with no problem (during taxi and runup I
applied carb heat periodically).

Plane was a Dakota.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article .com,
"Longworth" wrote:

George,
The restart did not happen right after the engine had quit but on
the ground after landing. It is possible the ice melted in the interval
thus allowed 'normal' start.

If you don't think it was carb ice, what would be other potential
causes?


Not uncommon for an engine to quit after a long idle descent on final.
As another poster mentioned, it used to be taught to "clear" the engine
occasionaly. Keeps the temps up a little and I guess reduces the chance
of it "loading up" and quiting.

If this was a Lycoming powered 172 carb ice is not as likely as with a
Continental engine.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

I've experienced ice with Continentals on the ground in the lovely warm
months of July and August. Finally learned to pull the carb heat one last
time just as I rolled into position and to get rid of it as I added takeoff
power. It ain't the heat, it's the humidity.

Bob Gardner

"Jose" wrote in message
. ..
I had a situation in the Shenandoah Valley where, during runup when I
checked smooth operation at idle, the engine quit. It started up easily
enough, but quit again at idle. Taxiied back, went to the shop and they
poked around with the plugs and a few other things, finding nothing. Their
theory was that it was carb ice.

Never had carb ice on the ground before.

Several hours later I took off with no problem (during taxi and runup I
applied carb heat periodically).

Plane was a Dakota.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jase Vanover wrote:
I taxied to the maintenance hanger (after being directed there by the FBO
via radio notification of the situation), and explained what happened to the
maintenance guy. He said that there is a stop on the throttle to keep the
idle setting from being too low that probably needed adjustment. Even so,
during shutdown (after restarting), idle setting on the throttle was still
800 - 900 RPM, which should be enough to keep the engine running I would
think.

Did you have the carb heat on when the engine died in the air and off
when you couldn't make the engine fail on the ground? Maybe the idle
setting was low enough that the additional RPM loss due to the carb
heat made a difference.

-R