Joining the USAF

Hi all,

I'd like to know what your opinion is on joining the US Air Force as
an officer and going to OTS. I'm considering going as an officer in a
technical field (not as a pilot). I know about MEPS and the process
for getting into the OTS, but what I would like to know is whether or
not it is worth it? Is there any guarantee as to what position I might
be working in, or whether or not I would be shipped to the Middle East
to do some sort of work out there? Will knowing Arabic increase my
chances of admission? You know, the general sort of questions that can
be asked to a recruiter, but without a clear, honest answer. Someone
out there with experience doing same would help out a great deal
(those with technical degrees, not pilots).

Thanks,

J

It's hard to say how a person will react. I joined the USAF as just
something to do, and it turned out I stayed for 21 years, and they
basically had to push me out the door because I was having so much
fun!

To me, there are two USAF's: 1) Ops 2) Idiots

The breed that exists in Operations are much more mission oriented,
and even a slick-sleeve is required to prove his/her worth in annual
evaluations that can result in their being booted out of the USAF, or
(horrors) being booted to maintenance or support.

Engineering officers are civilians in uniform. None of them have any
worth as a leader. I have never met a non-Ops officer who could
lead men into war. After all, that's what it is all about. We in ops,
eat, drank, and ****ed to be in the battle. I spent over 200 days TDY
every year, and it wasn't until I retired that I found out how much I
missed it. As a Captain even, you have a flight of officers who can
really provide leadership to a vast quantity of enlisted ops, and the
vermin we called non-ops. Non-ops types require leadership on an
hourly basis in battle. They are more apt to kill themselves than the
enemy.

Do it! In 4 years you will be a better man, regardless of whether you
hated every minute of it. Go to Iraq! Go to war, you will love it, and
you will be respected for it in your 40's. You may die on Route 66 in
Oklahoma, or the Death Route in Tikrit, but no one cares about
all the people who died and were maimed on Route 66.

Clue 1: You get what you put into it.

"Death may be more exciting than life" General Patton

"jshmoe" wrote
Hi all,

I'd like to know what your opinion is on joining the US Air Force as
an officer and going to OTS. I'm considering going as an officer in a
technical field (not as a pilot). I know about MEPS and the process
for getting into the OTS, but what I would like to know is whether or
not it is worth it? Is there any guarantee as to what position I might
be working in, or whether or not I would be shipped to the Middle East
to do some sort of work out there? Will knowing Arabic increase my
chances of admission? You know, the general sort of questions that can
be asked to a recruiter, but without a clear, honest answer. Someone
out there with experience doing same would help out a great deal
(those with technical degrees, not pilots).

Thanks,

J

Gene said "You get what you put into it".
I agree.

All the services are like that. Make the best of it and HAVE FUN!


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN Retired

20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
and getting further away every day ;-)




"Gene Storey" wrote in message
newspZrb.746$6p6.327@okepread03...
It's hard to say how a person will react. I joined the USAF as just
something to do, and it turned out I stayed for 21 years, and they
basically had to push me out the door because I was having so much
fun!

To me, there are two USAF's: 1) Ops 2) Idiots

The breed that exists in Operations are much more mission oriented,
and even a slick-sleeve is required to prove his/her worth in annual
evaluations that can result in their being booted out of the USAF, or
(horrors) being booted to maintenance or support.

Engineering officers are civilians in uniform. None of them have any
worth as a leader. I have never met a non-Ops officer who could
lead men into war. After all, that's what it is all about. We in ops,
eat, drank, and ****ed to be in the battle. I spent over 200 days TDY
every year, and it wasn't until I retired that I found out how much I
missed it. As a Captain even, you have a flight of officers who can
really provide leadership to a vast quantity of enlisted ops, and the
vermin we called non-ops. Non-ops types require leadership on an
hourly basis in battle. They are more apt to kill themselves than the
enemy.

Do it! In 4 years you will be a better man, regardless of whether you
hated every minute of it. Go to Iraq! Go to war, you will love it, and
you will be respected for it in your 40's. You may die on Route 66 in
Oklahoma, or the Death Route in Tikrit, but no one cares about
all the people who died and were maimed on Route 66.

Clue 1: You get what you put into it.

"Death may be more exciting than life" General Patton

"jshmoe" wrote
Hi all,

I'd like to know what your opinion is on joining the US Air Force as
an officer and going to OTS. I'm considering going as an officer in a
technical field (not as a pilot). I know about MEPS and the process
for getting into the OTS, but what I would like to know is whether or
not it is worth it? Is there any guarantee as to what position I might
be working in, or whether or not I would be shipped to the Middle East
to do some sort of work out there? Will knowing Arabic increase my
chances of admission? You know, the general sort of questions that can
be asked to a recruiter, but without a clear, honest answer. Someone
out there with experience doing same would help out a great deal
(those with technical degrees, not pilots).

Thanks,

J

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
newspZrb.746$6p6.327@okepread03...
It's hard to say how a person will react. I joined the USAF as just
something to do, and it turned out I stayed for 21 years, and they
basically had to push me out the door because I was having so much
fun!

To me, there are two USAF's: 1) Ops 2) Idiots


I sincerely hope that your comments are refering to "O's". Even then, some
of the maintenance officers that I've worked for put most of the
zipper-suits I've met to shame..................


The breed that exists in Operations are much more mission oriented,
and even a slick-sleeve is required to prove his/her worth in annual
evaluations that can result in their being booted out of the USAF, or
(horrors) being booted to maintenance or support.


What's not mission-oriented about trying to keep a fleet of aging airframes
FMC so that they can be abused on a daily basis?

Engineering officers are civilians in uniform. None of them have any
worth as a leader. I have never met a non-Ops officer who could
lead men into war. After all, that's what it is all about. We in ops,
eat, drank, and ****ed to be in the battle. I spent over 200 days TDY
every year, and it wasn't until I retired that I found out how much I
missed it. As a Captain even, you have a flight of officers who can
really provide leadership to a vast quantity of enlisted ops, and the
vermin we called non-ops. Non-ops types require leadership on an
hourly basis in battle. They are more apt to kill themselves than the
enemy.


Enlisted-ops. HA! I'll never forget the reaming that a SMSGT pro-super
gave a A1C who copped an attitude with the SSGT crew chief about the mess
they left on a jet post-flight. He went whined to his AC about it, and that
Captain tried to raise a fuss, instead of doing the right thing. That type
of leadership?

Do it! In 4 years you will be a better man, regardless of whether you
hated every minute of it. Go to Iraq! Go to war, you will love it, and
you will be respected for it in your 40's. You may die on Route 66 in
Oklahoma, or the Death Route in Tikrit, but no one cares about
all the people who died and were maimed on Route 66.

Clue 1: You get what you put into it.


I'll wholeheartedly agree with that. Jump at every chance to do something
new, do the jobs that nobody else seems to want, and above all, there's
nothing wrong with making mistakes, that's how you learn (as long as you
learn from them).

"Death may be more exciting than life" General Patton

"jshmoe" wrote
Hi all,

I'd like to know what your opinion is on joining the US Air Force as
an officer and going to OTS. I'm considering going as an officer in a
technical field (not as a pilot). I know about MEPS and the process
for getting into the OTS, but what I would like to know is whether or
not it is worth it? Is there any guarantee as to what position I might
be working in, or whether or not I would be shipped to the Middle East
to do some sort of work out there? Will knowing Arabic increase my
chances of admission? You know, the general sort of questions that can
be asked to a recruiter, but without a clear, honest answer. Someone
out there with experience doing same would help out a great deal
(those with technical degrees, not pilots).

Thanks,

J



(M)Sgt Peter Vierps
116 AMXS

Booted to maintenance???
Guess that gives me even more of a confused view of the Air Force!!!
Most of the Skippers I've worked for in the Navy Squadron's were
"booted" to Maintenance Officers as an 0-4. MO is a highly coveted
Department Head job. You are either the MO or Ops 'O' if you want the
#1 ranking for LCDR's period, and eventually Fleet up. Anyway,,,
In my experience with the Air Force flying 'O's, you guys never set
foot on the hangar deck and have no clue who works on your jets. You
don't even work in the same place,, you have a seperate building
called.... "132nd Flight" or something to that effect, where you
breif, then go to the 132nd Flight "clubhouse" and get your flight
gear, (do you even know who works on your gear?) Then get vanned or
bussed to your jet and sign for it from the crewchief. The only
contact you have with the enlisted people that work on your jets is
the crewchief. In the Navy, the J.O.s all have collateral ground jobs
called "division officers" where they see and work with the guys that
fix their jets and maintain their flight gear on a daily basis, in the
"hangar" (you know where the hangar is don't you?). My Div 'O's'and
eventually MO's actually "led "the people they worked with. Who in
the heck are you talking about Air Force flying officers leading?
Other Officers? Guess its a totally different world. And don't even go
there about my knowledge of leadership and enlisted. I did 18 years as
enlisted (6 as a Chief) , and 4 now as a CWO. Your comment on the Ops
'O's being more mission oriented is right on,,, but I have to agree
with VeeOne also. Each kind of has their own mission. Ops mission is
to want it all, and Maintenance is to give em what we can give em!(
and we bust our ass to do just that)


n Tue, 11 Nov 2003 00:25:08 -0500, "Vee-One" wrote:


"Gene Storey" wrote in message
newspZrb.746$6p6.327@okepread03...
It's hard to say how a person will react. I joined the USAF as just
something to do, and it turned out I stayed for 21 years, and they
basically had to push me out the door because I was having so much
fun!

To me, there are two USAF's: 1) Ops 2) Idiots


I sincerely hope that your comments are refering to "O's". Even then, some
of the maintenance officers that I've worked for put most of the
zipper-suits I've met to shame..................


The breed that exists in Operations are much more mission oriented,
and even a slick-sleeve is required to prove his/her worth in annual
evaluations that can result in their being booted out of the USAF, or
(horrors) being booted to maintenance or support.


What's not mission-oriented about trying to keep a fleet of aging airframes
FMC so that they can be abused on a daily basis?

Engineering officers are civilians in uniform. None of them have any
worth as a leader. I have never met a non-Ops officer who could
lead men into war. After all, that's what it is all about. We in ops,
eat, drank, and ****ed to be in the battle. I spent over 200 days TDY
every year, and it wasn't until I retired that I found out how much I
missed it. As a Captain even, you have a flight of officers who can
really provide leadership to a vast quantity of enlisted ops, and the
vermin we called non-ops. Non-ops types require leadership on an
hourly basis in battle. They are more apt to kill themselves than the
enemy.


Enlisted-ops. HA! I'll never forget the reaming that a SMSGT pro-super
gave a A1C who copped an attitude with the SSGT crew chief about the mess
they left on a jet post-flight. He went whined to his AC about it, and that
Captain tried to raise a fuss, instead of doing the right thing. That type
of leadership?

Do it! In 4 years you will be a better man, regardless of whether you
hated every minute of it. Go to Iraq! Go to war, you will love it, and
you will be respected for it in your 40's. You may die on Route 66 in
Oklahoma, or the Death Route in Tikrit, but no one cares about
all the people who died and were maimed on Route 66.

Clue 1: You get what you put into it.


I'll wholeheartedly agree with that. Jump at every chance to do something
new, do the jobs that nobody else seems to want, and above all, there's
nothing wrong with making mistakes, that's how you learn (as long as you
learn from them).

"Death may be more exciting than life" General Patton

"jshmoe" wrote
Hi all,

I'd like to know what your opinion is on joining the US Air Force as
an officer and going to OTS. I'm considering going as an officer in a
technical field (not as a pilot). I know about MEPS and the process
for getting into the OTS, but what I would like to know is whether or
not it is worth it? Is there any guarantee as to what position I might
be working in, or whether or not I would be shipped to the Middle East
to do some sort of work out there? Will knowing Arabic increase my
chances of admission? You know, the general sort of questions that can
be asked to a recruiter, but without a clear, honest answer. Someone
out there with experience doing same would help out a great deal
(those with technical degrees, not pilots).

Thanks,

J



(M)Sgt Peter Vierps
116 AMXS

In my experience with the Air Force flying 'O's, you guys never set
foot on the hangar deck and have no clue who works on your jets.

Must be pre-1993 experience.

You don't even work in the same place

Then who the hell were all those guys downstairs wearing the BDU's? Some of
them were the same crew chiefs that I "just signed the jet from". They came to
all our squadron meetings and functions too. Who the hell were they?

do you even know who works on your gear?

Well, since I spent one year as the Life Support Officer, I was very familar,
and since they were (are) in the same squadron with me, I'd have to be a real
idiot to not know who they were even if I wasn't LSO.

The only
contact you have with the enlisted people that work on your jets is
the crewchief.

And the line speacialists and the bomb loaders and every maintenance personell
outside of the back shop guys who were in a differant squadron. Now....as of 1
OCT 2002, they moved the maintenance function(except Life Support) back to its
own squadron and out of the Ops squadron, but the people still work in the same
offices, its just that they don't come to all the squadron meetings. Nearly
everyone recognizes this as a mistake.

In the Navy

snip

sarcasm onYeah, the Navy has some great officer-NCO or officer-enlisted
relationships sarcasm off

I spent a little over one month on the Theodore Roosevelt and was astonished at
the adversarial relationships between officers and non-officers. You guys may
work and live togather closer than the Air Force, but you certainly don't
respect and get along better.

you know where the hangar is don't you?

Since thats where my squadron was located, yes I do.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Thanks for making me more smart Bufdrvr. My perception may have been a
little biased and framed due to a lack of understanding the
differences in services. Yeah most was pre 1993, Kadena, Clark,
Misawa. One experience was more recent, 2001 Cope Thunder in Eilsson
(sp?). , where ops and the flight gear clubhouse (complete with
lockers and showers) was in a totally seperate building than the
hangar and maintenance. I guess I still don't understand it, even in
your response, I'm taking it that line specialists, bomb loaders,
maintenance, flight gear, and ops are all different squadrons?
The Navy has its own leadership problems for sure. The point of my
diatribe was that I took exception to the "being booted to
maintenance" statement.

On 11 Nov 2003 13:47:25 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

In my experience with the Air Force flying 'O's, you guys never set
foot on the hangar deck and have no clue who works on your jets.

Must be pre-1993 experience.

You don't even work in the same place

Then who the hell were all those guys downstairs wearing the BDU's? Some of
them were the same crew chiefs that I "just signed the jet from". They came to
all our squadron meetings and functions too. Who the hell were they?

do you even know who works on your gear?

Well, since I spent one year as the Life Support Officer, I was very familar,
and since they were (are) in the same squadron with me, I'd have to be a real
idiot to not know who they were even if I wasn't LSO.

The only
contact you have with the enlisted people that work on your jets is
the crewchief.

And the line speacialists and the bomb loaders and every maintenance personell
outside of the back shop guys who were in a differant squadron. Now....as of 1
OCT 2002, they moved the maintenance function(except Life Support) back to its
own squadron and out of the Ops squadron, but the people still work in the same
offices, its just that they don't come to all the squadron meetings. Nearly
everyone recognizes this as a mistake.

In the Navy

snip

sarcasm onYeah, the Navy has some great officer-NCO or officer-enlisted
relationships sarcasm off

I spent a little over one month on the Theodore Roosevelt and was astonished at
the adversarial relationships between officers and non-officers. You guys may
work and live togather closer than the Air Force, but you certainly don't
respect and get along better.

you know where the hangar is don't you?

Since thats where my squadron was located, yes I do.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

OBTW, BUFDRVR,
I have been reading in this newsgroup for a few months now, and have
just recently decided to get squirrley about posting in here. Is there
some kinda rules or FAQ's that I should read that you could point me
in the right direction to? Thanks

On 11 Nov 2003 13:47:25 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

In my experience with the Air Force flying 'O's, you guys never set
foot on the hangar deck and have no clue who works on your jets.

Must be pre-1993 experience.

You don't even work in the same place

Then who the hell were all those guys downstairs wearing the BDU's? Some of
them were the same crew chiefs that I "just signed the jet from". They came to
all our squadron meetings and functions too. Who the hell were they?

do you even know who works on your gear?

Well, since I spent one year as the Life Support Officer, I was very familar,
and since they were (are) in the same squadron with me, I'd have to be a real
idiot to not know who they were even if I wasn't LSO.

The only
contact you have with the enlisted people that work on your jets is
the crewchief.

And the line speacialists and the bomb loaders and every maintenance personell
outside of the back shop guys who were in a differant squadron. Now....as of 1
OCT 2002, they moved the maintenance function(except Life Support) back to its
own squadron and out of the Ops squadron, but the people still work in the same
offices, its just that they don't come to all the squadron meetings. Nearly
everyone recognizes this as a mistake.

In the Navy

snip

sarcasm onYeah, the Navy has some great officer-NCO or officer-enlisted
relationships sarcasm off

I spent a little over one month on the Theodore Roosevelt and was astonished at
the adversarial relationships between officers and non-officers. You guys may
work and live togather closer than the Air Force, but you certainly don't
respect and get along better.

you know where the hangar is don't you?

Since thats where my squadron was located, yes I do.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
In my experience with the Air Force flying 'O's, you guys never set
foot on the hangar deck and have no clue who works on your jets.

Must be pre-1993 experience.


BUFF, I'll have to disagree, but I'll preface this by saying I only worked
in 2 units during the great "reorganization circus".

I was at Tinker AFB, working AWACS maintenance, when it happened.
Administratively, we were reassigned from a single maintenance squadron, to
fall under our respective ops squadron. Our orderly room, admin folks,
training managers, etc all moved over to the ops building. We, the
flightline folks, stayed where we were at, because we located next to the
flightline. Never saw the bosses come down to the shop (except the
maintenance officer, he stayed where we were). If you went over to the OR
and walked into the building in BDU's, EVERYBODY looked down at you. I
would have dearly loved to work at a unit where the ops-maintenace merge
worked.

You don't even work in the same place

Then who the hell were all those guys downstairs wearing the BDU's? Some
of
them were the same crew chiefs that I "just signed the jet from". They
came to
all our squadron meetings and functions too. Who the hell were they?

do you even know who works on your gear?

Well, since I spent one year as the Life Support Officer, I was very
familar,
and since they were (are) in the same squadron with me, I'd have to be a
real
idiot to not know who they were even if I wasn't LSO.

The only
contact you have with the enlisted people that work on your jets is
the crewchief.

And the line speacialists and the bomb loaders and every maintenance
personell
outside of the back shop guys who were in a differant squadron. Now....as
of 1
OCT 2002, they moved the maintenance function(except Life Support) back
to its
own squadron and out of the Ops squadron, but the people still work in the
same
offices, its just that they don't come to all the squadron meetings.
Nearly
everyone recognizes this as a mistake.


From my point of view, it's entirely the right thing to do. Again, that's
MY view, a 16 year maintainer working E-3's and E-8's.

In the Navy

snip

sarcasm onYeah, the Navy has some great officer-NCO or officer-enlisted
relationships sarcasm off

I spent a little over one month on the Theodore Roosevelt and was
astonished at
the adversarial relationships between officers and non-officers. You guys
may
work and live togather closer than the Air Force, but you certainly don't
respect and get along better.

you know where the hangar is don't you?

Since thats where my squadron was located, yes I do.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Peter

From: (BUFDRVR)


snip

In my experience with the Air Force flying 'O's, you guys never set
foot on the hangar deck and have no clue who works on your jets.

Must be pre-1993 experience.

You don't even work in the same place

Then who the hell were all those guys downstairs wearing the BDU's? Some of
them were the same crew chiefs that I "just signed the jet from". They came
to all our squadron meetings and functions too. Who the hell were they?

snip

The relationship between OPS and maintenance is always changing and may never
actually be ideal. Maintenance keeps changing how they run themselves every few
years. If you want examples of Chinese ceremonial goose stuffings look up POMO,
COMO etc. I was in maintenance as part of OPS units, my last was 9 SOS,
separate maintenace squadrons and CAMS. The average wrenchbender couldn't care
less what you call the unit as long as he gets good leadership, treatment and
support.

In the Navy

snip

sarcasm onYeah, the Navy has some great officer-NCO or officer-enlisted
relationships sarcasm off

I spent a little over one month on the Theodore Roosevelt and was astonished
at the adversarial relationships between officers and non-officers. You guys
may
work and live togather closer than the Air Force, but you certainly don't
respect and get along better.


I went to sea with the Navy a few times on the little boats like the USS
Okinawa. I didn't see the adversarial relationships you describe, but the rank
differences are much more defined in the Navy than the Air Force. Examples;
"officer country," top 3 going to the head of the chow line etc. Things are
only slightly better than WW2 where boats like destroyers had such a class
difference you'd see officers eating fresh fruit at one end of the chow hall
and enlisted at the other end eating slop. Shipboard life is very much a feudal
system and probably always will be which explaind why the ship's captain has a
Marine guard.


Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired