AHRS and competition/badges/records/OLC ?

Sean Franke wrote on 3/31/2021 6:13 PM:
On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 6:08:53 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Semantics Michael wrote on 3/31/2021 3:22 PM:
Hmmm ........disabling a critical safety feature makes perfect sense.

Nonsense. I've never needed one in 7000 hours of soaring - how critical can it be? Arguably,
someone with one is more likely to need one for safety, because they think they have an "out".
Also, it's been prohibited in US contests for 50+ years, and I don't recall a single fatality
linked to that prohibition.

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I spoke with a pilot who flew in the Sierra wave many years ago and inadvertently went into a lenticular. See https://rec.aviation.soaring.narkive...-reno-pilot-ok. He had an artificial horizon which wasn't on. He considered it a safety feature and thought it was possible to get on soon enough when needed. Before he could get it on his wings came off. Today with LXNAV you can get to the AHRS with an instantaneous single click. The outcome may have been different today.

You can find stories in soaring books of pilots who were sucked up into thunderstorms.

My sailplane came with an artificial horizon. The previous owner considered it a safety feature. I removed it after installing an LX9000 with AHRS.

I don't recall an a single competition fatality linked to AHRS prohibition. However, it doesn't mean it won't happen.

I the end, after an accident, no one wants to explain why disabling a safety feature was required to enter a competition.
My comment was intended to address it's use in contests. I'm fine with people carrying them
otherwise, and I've carried a T&B or AH for decades. It's not clear to me that allowing them in
contests would actually increase safety, nor do I think excluding them increases legal issues.
It seems easy to explain why allowing them would be a bad idea for the sport and the safety of
the pilots, and I think a likely outcome would be contest rules that set task altitude limits
at least 1000' below the forecast cloud base.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 8:54:11 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Sean Franke wrote on 3/31/2021 6:13 PM:
On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 6:08:53 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Semantics Michael wrote on 3/31/2021 3:22 PM:
Hmmm ........disabling a critical safety feature makes perfect sense.

Nonsense. I've never needed one in 7000 hours of soaring - how critical can it be? Arguably,
someone with one is more likely to need one for safety, because they think they have an "out".
Also, it's been prohibited in US contests for 50+ years, and I don't recall a single fatality
linked to that prohibition.

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I spoke with a pilot who flew in the Sierra wave many years ago and inadvertently went into a lenticular. See https://rec.aviation.soaring.narkive...-reno-pilot-ok. He had an artificial horizon which wasn't on. He considered it a safety feature and thought it was possible to get on soon enough when needed. Before he could get it on his wings came off. Today with LXNAV you can get to the AHRS with an instantaneous single click. The outcome may have been different today.

You can find stories in soaring books of pilots who were sucked up into thunderstorms.

My sailplane came with an artificial horizon. The previous owner considered it a safety feature. I removed it after installing an LX9000 with AHRS..

I don't recall an a single competition fatality linked to AHRS prohibition. However, it doesn't mean it won't happen.

I the end, after an accident, no one wants to explain why disabling a safety feature was required to enter a competition.
My comment was intended to address it's use in contests. I'm fine with people carrying them
otherwise, and I've carried a T&B or AH for decades. It's not clear to me that allowing them in
contests would actually increase safety, nor do I think excluding them increases legal issues.
It seems easy to explain why allowing them would be a bad idea for the sport and the safety of
the pilots, and I think a likely outcome would be contest rules that set task altitude limits
at least 1000' below the forecast cloud base.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Well... bummer.

I'm not looking to fly IMC, and not looking to cheat. I just really like the AV-30 + TailBeaconX solution.

I'm guessing things will change more before I finally get/build a sailplane..

Thanks for all the helpful info everyone!

On my best OLC flights I almost always take climbs inside cu. My glider is equipped, I have rating, it's legal, it's not against OLC rules. Same applies for badges and records. In competitions it is prohibited.

On 01/04/2021 03:49, Matthew Scutter wrote:
On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 11:56:25 AM UTC+10, Jeff Bures wrote:
On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 2:26:10 PM UTC-7, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
On 31/03/2021 19:01, Jeff Bures wrote:
Hi all,

I'm bored. I'm without a sailplane. I'm planning for my retirement, which is still some years away. I hope it will include some OLC, casual competitions, badge, or regional record attempts probably limited to the USA. It could possibly include a homebuilt or refurbished sailplane.

As such, I’ve been goofing around with panel layouts, researching and planning instruments and equipment. I’ve created everything from the ‘Ultimate’ to the ‘Minimalistic’ setup.

One interesting thing has caught my attention and I need to know more. Hopefully this group will help. No flaming please.

The availability of AHRS for sailplanes is growing rapidly. There are several affordable options available from several manufacturers, some targeted specifically at sailplanes. Many are included (or upgrades) to soaring computers. Examples include uAvionix, LX Navigation, LX Nav, and even some phone/tablet solutions (iLevil, FlightBox, WingBug).

An AV-30 could replace three (or more) instruments (airspeed, altitude, and Xpnder/ADS-B head unit). Instead of being excessively more money, it has become an affordable safety/luxury item. Soaring computers are already so very sophisticated, it won’t be long until we’ll have one screen that does everything (like a Dynon or MGL unit in amateur built aircraft).

All this leads me to some questions about competitions, badges, OLC, and records.

1. I see that SSA competition rules, section 6.6.1 prohibits AHRS type instruments. I also see there is a ‘waiver’ system, but you have to be able to disable the artificial horizon type features. What do people do these days at competitions? Do modern glide computers with AHRS include an approved ‘lock out’ feature? Does everyone get a waiver? Do most people just not buy or install the capability? I cannot see this as a tenable solution moving forward as so many AHRS systems are becoming so affordable (and possibly default installations). How is this all managed at competitions (visual inspection, self reporting, or honor system)?

2. What about OLC, badges, or records? I wasn’t able to locate information about ‘prohibited’ equipment. If they are prohibited, is it ‘honor system’ or something else that guarantees compliance?

Flight Recorders that are IGC-approved and have AHRS capability have two
features relating to this, aimed at Competitions.

The .IGC file records the activating of an AHRS.

The AHRS feature can be disabled for a period of days and cannot be
re-activated until the said days have passed.

For un-approved recorders, it is anyone's guess.
So if I have an AHRS without IGC logger, I can't participate in competitions.

What about OLC, badges, and record attempts?

OLC you can trivially forge entire traces, lie about your glider type (set your EB29 to a 2-33?), so cloud flying is the least of your problems.
Badges and records, you need to convince your official observer that your flight was not only within the FAI rules, but also legal. So the onus is on your OO to verify it, as well as your honour.

OLC make their own rules.
For IGC badges and records AHRS are not prohibited. Read the Sporting Code.
For National Records and National Competitions, it is a local decision.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 18:56:23 -0700, Jeff Bures wrote:

So if I have an AHRS without IGC logger, I can't participate in
competitions.

What about OLC, badges, and record attempts?

Correct, but only because you the logger is required: the scoring program
works by reading the logger trace, so no logger = zero score.

Whether AHRS carriage is permitted or not is a local competition rule.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org