3 Alisport Silent 2 Electros for sale in Wings and Wheels.

On 12/14/20 9:56 AM, 2G wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 8:20:42 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
How far you will need to self-retrieve depends upon the flight, not the glider. A Mini-Lak was the glider involved in the case I cited, and the pilot was attempting a 750k record flight. And the oft-quoted self-retrieve distance is way too optimistic - I would cut it in half, and that might be too generous (having to clear a mountain range, for example).

Tom

Why would you need to clear a mountain range on a self retrieve? Motor
to the nearest airport and land. It's stupid to kill yourself trying to
get home when a safe landing can be made elsewhere, but then who ever
said that glider pilots are "smart", especially those of us with motors
or engines?

--
Dan
5J

Because the nearest airport IS on the other side of a mountain range! That is exactly what happened at Ely last summer.

Tom


Hmmmmmmmm.. Let's see... Maybe I can get across the mountains, but I
can definitely land safely on this side.

And if that's not true, it's idiotic putting yourself into a position
that you can't get out of without risking your life. I have no sympathy
for those who die doing something stupid.

--
Dan
5J

On 12/14/20 9:54 AM, 2G wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 8:25:36 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote on 12/11/2020 2:05 PM:
Charles Zabinski wrote on 12/11/2020 1:48 PM:
There are 16 Silent 2 Electros in the FAA Registration Data Base. 3 are for sale and are all
low time. Any thoughts? Are they uncomfortable, poor penetration, what?

Call the owners and talk to them. The Electro owner I know likes to talk about his, but he also
flies it a lot. Here is his OLC logbook for the 2020 season:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....t=olc&pi=10497

Here's the OLC logbook of another 13.5M/FES glider pilot I know: Phil Rose. He flew seven
flights in Ely this year in his miniLak, garnering several state, national, and World records
in the process. He might be a good source of information for choosing the miniLak over an Electro.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

And he is also the pilot I cited who landed his miniLak out, stating to me that he didn't think he had the battery capacity to do a self-retrieve even though he was quite a bit less than 100k out of Ely.

Tom


On the seven flights Eric showed, he was taking tows to conserve
battery. If these things were marketed as sustainers with limited
range, that would be more accurate than calling them self-launchers.

kinsell wrote on 12/14/2020 10:35 AM:
On 12/14/20 9:54 AM, 2G wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 8:25:36 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote on 12/11/2020 2:05 PM:
Charles Zabinski wrote on 12/11/2020 1:48 PM:
There are 16 Silent 2 Electros in the FAA Registration Data Base. 3 are for sale and are all
low time. Any thoughts? Are they uncomfortable, poor penetration, what?

Call the owners and talk to them. The Electro owner I know likes to talk about his, but he
also
flies it a lot. Here is his OLC logbook for the 2020 season:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....t=olc&pi=10497

Here's the OLC logbook of another 13.5M/FES glider pilot I know: Phil Rose. He flew seven
flights in Ely this year in his miniLak, garnering several state, national, and World records
in the process. He might be a good source of information for choosing the miniLak over an
Electro.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

And he is also the pilot I cited who landed his miniLak out, stating to me that he didn't
think he had the battery capacity to do a self-retrieve even though he was quite a bit less
than 100k out of Ely.

Tom


On the seven flights Eric showed, he was taking tows to conserve battery.* If these things were
marketed as sustainers with limited range, that would be more accurate than calling them
self-launchers.

Taking tows was a tactical decision, made by a pilot seeking records and big flights in tiger
country, a situation making an airborne motor use more likely than otherwise; normally, he
flies in Washington state and self-launches. Jeff Banks, the Electro pilot I mentioned, mostly
self-launched while at Heber, Parawon, Nephi, Stout Field, and Richfield this season - 26
flights in all.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 11:16:22 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
kinsell wrote on 12/14/2020 10:35 AM:
On 12/14/20 9:54 AM, 2G wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 8:25:36 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote on 12/11/2020 2:05 PM:
Charles Zabinski wrote on 12/11/2020 1:48 PM:
There are 16 Silent 2 Electros in the FAA Registration Data Base. 3 are for sale and are all
low time. Any thoughts? Are they uncomfortable, poor penetration, what?

Call the owners and talk to them. The Electro owner I know likes to talk about his, but he
also
flies it a lot. Here is his OLC logbook for the 2020 season:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....t=olc&pi=10497

Here's the OLC logbook of another 13.5M/FES glider pilot I know: Phil Rose. He flew seven
flights in Ely this year in his miniLak, garnering several state, national, and World records
in the process. He might be a good source of information for choosing the miniLak over an
Electro.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

And he is also the pilot I cited who landed his miniLak out, stating to me that he didn't
think he had the battery capacity to do a self-retrieve even though he was quite a bit less
than 100k out of Ely.

Tom


On the seven flights Eric showed, he was taking tows to conserve battery. If these things were
marketed as sustainers with limited range, that would be more accurate than calling them
self-launchers.
Taking tows was a tactical decision, made by a pilot seeking records and big flights in tiger
country, a situation making an airborne motor use more likely than otherwise; normally, he
flies in Washington state and self-launches. Jeff Banks, the Electro pilot I mentioned, mostly
self-launched while at Heber, Parawon, Nephi, Stout Field, and Richfield this season - 26
flights in all.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

All of the bullet points I made for Charles are valid. As happens for most things in life, there are tradeoffs to be made and the manufacturers tend to obfuscate these tradeoffs to make their product look better. The bottom line is if you want to self-launch you ARE going to sacrifice self-retrieve distance. It doesn't matter if you think that Charles doesn't need that much of a self-retrieve - that is totally up to him (and I actually made that point in item 4).

Tom

On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 2:16:22 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
kinsell wrote on 12/14/2020 10:35 AM:
On 12/14/20 9:54 AM, 2G wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 8:25:36 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote on 12/11/2020 2:05 PM:
Charles Zabinski wrote on 12/11/2020 1:48 PM:
There are 16 Silent 2 Electros in the FAA Registration Data Base. 3 are for sale and are all
low time. Any thoughts? Are they uncomfortable, poor penetration, what?

Call the owners and talk to them. The Electro owner I know likes to talk about his, but he
also
flies it a lot. Here is his OLC logbook for the 2020 season:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....t=olc&pi=10497

Here's the OLC logbook of another 13.5M/FES glider pilot I know: Phil Rose. He flew seven
flights in Ely this year in his miniLak, garnering several state, national, and World records
in the process. He might be a good source of information for choosing the miniLak over an
Electro.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

And he is also the pilot I cited who landed his miniLak out, stating to me that he didn't
think he had the battery capacity to do a self-retrieve even though he was quite a bit less
than 100k out of Ely.

Tom


On the seven flights Eric showed, he was taking tows to conserve battery. If these things were
marketed as sustainers with limited range, that would be more accurate than calling them
self-launchers.
Taking tows was a tactical decision, made by a pilot seeking records and big flights in tiger
country, a situation making an airborne motor use more likely than otherwise; normally, he
flies in Washington state and self-launches. Jeff Banks, the Electro pilot I mentioned, mostly
self-launched while at Heber, Parawon, Nephi, Stout Field, and Richfield this season - 26
flights in all.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

The benefit is that one has the option to fly when no tug is available knowing that the available power for save or return will be much more limited than if a tow is taken. Somewhere between 25 and 40% of available energy will likely be used to launch.
That said, having the motor isn't just motor home. It may be to get out of a bad spot in the flight and then continue soaring home. That may require very little energy.
The profile for my electric ASW-24E(L) is launch and have about 3500- 4000 feet of additional climb remaining for saves. Testing so far projects about 5500 ft of climb from full charge.
All I need is to be able to fly on Wednesday when there is no tow pilot and have a high expectation of not having to call my wife for a retrieve.
I suspect my objective is much like many that have these gliders.
FWIW
UH

+1
Scott Manley - Alisport Silent 2 Electro #2066 - For sale - Wings&Wheels

The benefit is that one has the option to fly when no tug is available knowing that the available power for save or return will be much more limited than if a tow is taken. Somewhere between 25 and 40% of available energy will likely be used to launch.
That said, having the motor isn't just motor home. It may be to get out of a bad spot in the flight and then continue soaring home. That may require very little energy.
The profile for my electric ASW-24E(L) is launch and have about 3500- 4000 feet of additional climb remaining for saves. Testing so far projects about 5500 ft of climb from full charge.
All I need is to be able to fly on Wednesday when there is no tow pilot and have a high expectation of not having to call my wife for a retrieve.
I suspect my objective is much like many that have these gliders.
FWIW
UH

On Wednesday, December 16, 2020 at 11:51:42 AM UTC-5, Scooter McMuffin wrote:
+1
Scott Manley - Alisport Silent 2 Electro #2066 - For sale - Wings&Wheels
The benefit is that one has the option to fly when no tug is available knowing that the available power for save or return will be much more limited than if a tow is taken. Somewhere between 25 and 40% of available energy will likely be used to launch.
That said, having the motor isn't just motor home. It may be to get out of a bad spot in the flight and then continue soaring home. That may require very little energy.
The profile for my electric ASW-24E(L) is launch and have about 3500- 4000 feet of additional climb remaining for saves. Testing so far projects about 5500 ft of climb from full charge.
All I need is to be able to fly on Wednesday when there is no tow pilot and have a high expectation of not having to call my wife for a retrieve.
I suspect my objective is much like many that have these gliders.
FWIW
UH
The +1 was to Uncle Hank's comments

Thanks to all that responded to my query. Thanks especially to Eric Greenwell and Hank Nixon for their cogent comments. Most of my personal flights now, due to age, are 2 to 3 hours, not too far from the airport. The ability to self launch during the week, when there is no tow pilot, is a real plus. Time to start thinking about a partner and a hangar.

Happy Holidays and stay safe,
Charles Zabinski

At Toronto Soaring we had an interesting radio call from someone overflying us with a Silent 2 Electro this past summer. He wanted to know if we had a 220V electrical circuit with a plug socket (stove, dryer, etc.) We confirmed we did and invited him to drop in any time. The next day he did just that. He flies with his charging equipment. After landing he pulled the batteries, charged them in our shop where we had the circuit for a welder and was invited to tea in someone’s trailer while they charged. We had a good look at the glider while he was there. I thought the full-span flaperons were a nice feature.

I asked him about take offs and he does taxi on pavement to a runway where he is based but says he can’t do so on grass. On take off we only had short grass but he had trouble getting it to start the roll. He had to his belts and rock back and forth in his seat to break free! Watching the climb out I was a little disappointed with the performance. Still, a neat little glider. I’m guess the short prop is the real limitation.

On 12/21/20 12:14 PM, wrote:
At Toronto Soaring we had an interesting radio call from someone overflying us with a Silent 2 Electro this past summer. He wanted to know if we had a 220V electrical circuit with a plug socket (stove, dryer, etc.) We confirmed we did and invited him to drop in any time. The next day he did just that. He flies with his charging equipment. After landing he pulled the batteries, charged them in our shop where we had the circuit for a welder and was invited to tea in someone’s trailer while they charged. We had a good look at the glider while he was there. I thought the full-span flaperons were a nice feature.

I asked him about take offs and he does taxi on pavement to a runway where he is based but says he can’t do so on grass. On take off we only had short grass but he had trouble getting it to start the roll. He had to his belts and rock back and forth in his seat to break free! Watching the climb out I was a little disappointed with the performance. Still, a neat little glider.

On "Scooter's" Silent 2 for sale, the description says it comes with a
2000 watt transformer to deal with the voltage issue. Be nice to hear
why that one's up for sale.



I’m guess the short prop is the real limitation.


That, plus the relatively small amount of energy that is stored in the
batteries. Not exactly a new issue.

-Dave