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How long before /G required for IFR?



 
 
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  #51  
Old February 27th 05, 05:36 AM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

But it doesn't change the rule, which is still there and available for
enforcement, and is still binding on pilots and controllers.


How is it binding on controllers?


  #52  
Old February 27th 05, 05:39 AM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Newps" wrote in message
news

Yep, you're getting all the AFSS guys that will be, ah, surplussed.


Not all, just those few that have been controllers.


  #53  
Old February 27th 05, 06:33 AM
Stan Prevost
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

But it doesn't change the rule, which is still there and available for
enforcement, and is still binding on pilots and controllers.


How is it binding on controllers?


Is it true that a controller may not issue an instruction to a pilot that
would require the pilot to violate a rule of the FAR?



  #54  
Old February 27th 05, 08:18 AM
C J Campbell
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wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:56:33 -0800, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"Dan Thompson" wrote in message
.com...
This is an old horse and I almost hate to bring it up again, but are

you
aware you can legally accept direct FUBAR as a /U under IFR, and

monitor
your progress with a handheld GPS?


It is a sad day that people now assume clearance direct to an

intersection
can only be complied with if you have some sort of RNAV. Makes me wonder

how
we ever did it in the '70s with only a VOR and a TACAN.



You had a VOR and a TACAN? Lucky dog.


I was a C-130 navigator. We had pretty good equipment, considering.

I was around when Omega was introduced. I flew in the very first C-130 to be
equipped with Omega. Decades later, when I was learning to fly as a pilot
and working on my instrument rating, I was told that Omega was being
decommissioned. Talk about making one feel old!


  #55  
Old February 27th 05, 09:07 AM
C J Campbell
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"Colin W Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news

"Dan Thompson" wrote in message
. com...
This is an old horse and I almost hate to bring it up again, but are

you
aware you can legally accept direct FUBAR as a /U under IFR, and

monitor
your progress with a handheld GPS?


It is a sad day that people now assume clearance direct to an

intersection
can only be complied with if you have some sort of RNAV. Makes me wonder

how
we ever did it in the '70s with only a VOR and a TACAN.


Pray enlighten me to one thing- let's say I'm on V123 and cleared direct

to
FUBAR which is defined by the intersection of V456 and V789. Leaving out

the
legal-vs-practical debate, there is no way for me to navigate from my
present position to FUBAR in a straight line sans RNAV. It's always been

my
understanding that "direct" means they assume you will in fact go straight
there, not turn left 20 degrees, intercept V456, and then head to FUBAR.

Am
I missing something here?


The Air Force has written all kinds of instrument and navigation manuals
which you can download. They are considerably modernized from my day, but
all the old information is still there. An example may be found he
http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfi...fpam11-216.pdf.
An MB-4 Computer is the Air Force version of the E6-B. From the Air Force
AFPAM 11-216 "Navigation Procedures:"

5.16. Fix-to-Fix Navigation (Using the MB-4 Computer). A fix-to-fix can also
be computed on the

wind face side of an MB-4 computer. First, give the pilot a general heading
toward the fix. (NOTE: You

can work in bearings; however, all work must be done in either bearings or
radials to compute the

solution.) For the following example, radials will be used. The fix you wish
to navigate to is the 280o

radial at 30 DME. Set up a graphic depiction on the wind face side of your
computer with your present

position (350o radial at 050 DME) and the desired fix (280o/030). Use the
following steps:

5.16.1. Place your present position (350o/050) on the wind face side using
the square grid at the bottom

of the MB-4. Align 350o on the compass rose under the true index. Mark the
point by counting down 50

NM from the true airspeed (TAS) grommet and mark with a +. Use the scale set
up on the square grid or

set up an applicable scale. The scale used must remain constant throughout
the problem (Figure 5.13).

5.16.2. Place the fix radial and DME (280o/030) on the computer the same way
you did in step one

(Figure 5.14). Mark as a fix symbol (?).

5.16.3. Determine the no wind heading by rotating the compass rose so that
the present position (+) is

directly above the fix (?). Use the square grid at the bottom to help with
alignment (Figure 5.15). Turn

the aircraft to MC under the true index (206o for this example) and kill the
drift. (NOTE: You can place

your present position (+) on the 0 NM horizontal baseline then, using your
NM increment scale, count

down to the fix position (?) to determine how far you are from the fix (48
NM in this example; Figure

5.15.)

5.16.4. Repeat the procedure as necessary to keep your progress updated.


  #56  
Old February 27th 05, 09:11 AM
C J Campbell
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"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

5.16.2. Place the fix radial and DME (280o/030) on the computer the same

way
you did in step one

(Figure 5.14). Mark as a fix symbol (?).

5.16.3. Determine the no wind heading by rotating the compass rose so that
the present position (+) is


OK, you can't make the little delta shaped fix symbol on USENET, so it
substituted the question mark. It also converted 280 degrees to 280o. The +
sign worked, at least.


  #57  
Old February 27th 05, 10:39 AM
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

wrote in message ...

Try 91.205 (d) (2) for starters:

d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and
equipment are required:

(2) Two-way radio communications system and navigational equipment
appropriate to the ground facilities to be used.


That states what equipment is required to be aboard, it does not restrict
the use of equipment not required to be aboard.


Think non-radar operations, where the controller isn't going to play
"Frick and Frack" direct-to games with you. Failure to comply with 91.205
can
rapidly lead to 91.3, and the FAA attorneys win every time.


Nobody suggested IFR operations without the required equipment.


Are you suggesting Michael is a nobody? He stated:

A handheld GPS will not come with such a placard, and there's no rule
that says you can't use it for enroute IFR (anyone who says otherwise
is welcome to quote chapter and verse from the approriate regulation -
NOT an advisory circular or AIM).

This was stated in the context of a thread asking the somewhat rhetorical
question "Will /G become mandatory because of the movement to begin to shut
down VOR stations. Since Michael proposed using a portable GPS based on a
incorrect presmise that it has no placard that restricts it to VFR (not true in
substance in that the operating material suppied with the units state that), he
was clearing challenging operating in an area without adequate VOR stations for
non-radar IFR operations.


  #58  
Old February 27th 05, 02:28 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

Is it true that a controller may not issue an instruction to a pilot that
would require the pilot to violate a rule of the FAR?


No. Pilots are required to abide by the FARs and controllers are required
to abide by FAA Order 7110.65.


  #59  
Old February 27th 05, 02:33 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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wrote in message ...

Are you suggesting Michael is a nobody? He stated:

A handheld GPS will not come with such a placard, and there's no rule
that says you can't use it for enroute IFR (anyone who says otherwise
is welcome to quote chapter and verse from the approriate regulation -
NOT an advisory circular or AIM).

This was stated in the context of a thread asking the somewhat rhetorical
question "Will /G become mandatory because of the movement to begin to
shut
down VOR stations. Since Michael proposed using a portable GPS based on a
incorrect presmise that it has no placard that restricts it to VFR (not
true in
substance in that the operating material suppied with the units state
that), he
was clearing challenging operating in an area without adequate VOR
stations for
non-radar IFR operations.


Nobody suggested IFR operations without the required equipment. A handheld
GPS does not require any placard to be affixed to the aircraft or any change
to a flight manual.


  #60  
Old February 27th 05, 02:35 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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wrote in message
...

It just is.


But you cannot explain why?


 




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