FAA KEEPS GRAPHICAL TFR PROMISE

*****It would be interesting to know if the data presented by each agree.
****


They don't

On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 15:42:07 -0800, "karl gruber"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

*****It would be interesting to know if the data presented by each agree.
****


They don't


Are you able to provide two URLs to the same TFR that don't agree?

After I complained to my two congressmen(women), they simply removed the
original Bremerton TFR chart.

The new one, what, a week old, is still off. Way off.

Leave it to a government employee to not be able to place a LAT/LON on a map
and draw a circle around it.

http://tfr.faa.gov/TFR/jsp/tfrmap.js...fr&zTfr=3/6719


Karl
"Curator" N185KG

Uh... what is the "server" and what is the "source"? Also, how does it
request a refresh from the "source" differently than just from the
"server"? Is there an HTTP protocol for specifying which level of
cached information is being requested?

-Jon C.


"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

There's a difference between refresh and ctrl=refresh. Refresh gets
a new
version onto your computer from the server, ctrl-refresh forces the
server to
get a new version from the source.

On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 19:39:44 -0800, "karl gruber"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

After I complained to my two congressmen(women), they simply removed the
original Bremerton TFR chart.

The new one, what, a week old, is still off. Way off.

Leave it to a government employee to not be able to place a LAT/LON on a map
and draw a circle around it.

http://tfr.faa.gov/TFR/jsp/tfrmap.js...fr&zTfr=3/6719


Here is the proper e-mail address for submitting error reports to the
FAA graphical TFR webmaster:
http://www.asu.faa.gov/consumer_email/message.cfm

When a web page is created, it resides somewhere on a computer connected to the
internet. That's the source. When it is changed, that is the first place the
change shows up.

When you connect to the internet, your computer connects to another computer
that's already connected and will provide you internet services. That is your
server. For example, if you are on aol, then one of the aol.com computers is
your "server". (note - "your" server. Other people connected to the internet
may well have other servers)

When you request a web page, the request goes to the server. If the server has
never seen this page before, the server sends the request on down the line to
other computers connected to the internet (in a rational order) until it finds
the source, which (of course) has seen this page before. The source sends
a copy of the page up the line to your server, which then sends it to your
computer which puts it on your screen.

The next time you request that page, your computer may look in its own memory
(cache) to see if it still has the old copy. If it does (and it hasn't
"expired"), it will display the old copy rather than tie up the internet
requesting the page again and making you wait for it to be retransmitted.
Often this is what you want, but sometimes not. When you hit the "refresh"
button, your browser registers your dissatisfaction with its offering, and asks
the server for a fresh copy.

If the page is not requested often, that copy may also be stale, but the server
will give it to you anyway. Sometimes the server's copy is newer (for example,
if other people on the same server have requested the page after the server's
copy has "expired") and in that case you get the sort-of newer copy. But
sometimes that's not new enough either. So you can do a control-refresh (at
least in IE - it may be a different keystroke combination in other browsers),
which tells the server that you're not going to put up with any of this old
stuff, and to bloody well go to the source, just in case the source itself has
changed in the interim. You'll need to wait for the request to make its way
through the internet, and for all the bytes to wind their way back to your
machine.

Often this is not a big deal, but if everyone did this for static web pages, it
would provide no benefit (the page is after all the same) and would tie up too
much bandwidth. So, the user gets to choose how far to pursue this, depending
on how critical current data is.

Some pages are set up to "expire" sooner than others in cache, so that when a
request for this page comes in, it will go straight to the source. Others are
not, so that the source is left in peace (and doesn't have to pay for all the
bandwidth that would have been used sending identical copies all over the
place). This has a consequence for banner ads and web tracking too - if you
take the page from your cache or from the server, the source never knows it was
requested.

Nothing is simple with computers and the internet, and it's that way for a good
reason. I just wish companies would stop pretending it was simple, and just
explain things so that they could be understood (and used to best advantage).
After all, life isn't simple either, and people manage to live it.

Jose

====

Uh... what is the "server" and what is the "source"? Also, how does it
request a refresh from the "source" differently than just from the
"server"? Is there an HTTP protocol for specifying which level of
cached information is being requested?

-Jon C.


"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

There's a difference between refresh and ctrl=refresh. Refresh gets
a new
version onto your computer from the server, ctrl-refresh forces the
server to
get a new version from the source.

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

(Teacherjh) writes:

When you connect to the internet, your computer connects to another computer
that's already connected and will provide you internet services. That is your
server.

I'd call that my ISP, gateway, router, ... but not "server".

When you request a web page, the request goes to the server. If the server has
never seen this page before, the server sends the request on down the line to
other computers connected to the internet (in a rational order) until it finds
the source, which (of course) has seen this page before.

What world are we in here? You're talking about a string of
(transparent) caching proxy servers? They communicate "in a rational
order"? So this is something like a SquidCache system?

There's very little that's truly "standard" about caching HTTP proxies.
Such broad generalizations make me cringe.

'course AOL is different. But AOL is not "the Internet".

--kyler

I'd call that my ISP, gateway, router, ... but not "server".

If it has the files on it and delivers them to you, it's a server. IT may also
be a gateway and other stuff, but in broad strokes, "server" works fine.


You're talking about a string of
(transparent) caching proxy servers?
They communicate "in a rational order"?


Yes, close enough. Of course more goes on, but it's mainly irrelevant.


There's very little that's truly "standard" about caching HTTP proxies.
Such broad generalizations make me cringe.


This is true, but in the context of explaning "ctrl-refresh" in an aviation
newsgroup, broad generalizations like this are useful. We're primarily here to
discuss flying, not internet protocols; the context of the question was how to
ensure that you get the most current FAA TFR data when you go to the site.
Caching happens in many places, and it's usually a good thing. Sometimes you
need to override it; I just gave a quickie on how and why.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Larry Dighera wrote in message . ..
From AvWeb:

FAA KEEPS GRAPHICAL TFR PROMISE
A year after promising them, FAA Administrator Marion Blakey will
announce that real-time graphical depictions of current TFRs will be
available on the FAA Web site starting today.
http://tfr.faa.gov/TFR/jsp/list.jsp

Check this one out as well:

https://www.tfrfaa.naimes.faa.gov/TfrFAA/

On 12 Nov 2003 12:22:42 -0800, (Jon Parmet)
wrote in Message-Id:
:

Larry Dighera wrote in message . ..
From AvWeb:

FAA KEEPS GRAPHICAL TFR PROMISE
A year after promising them, FAA Administrator Marion Blakey will
announce that real-time graphical depictions of current TFRs will be
available on the FAA Web site starting today.
http://tfr.faa.gov/TFR/jsp/list.jsp

Check this one out as well:

https://www.tfrfaa.naimes.faa.gov/TfrFAA/

Thanks.

It looks good to me except that the circles are oval; the graphics are
stretched laterally. And what's the deal with the SSL?

So it appears that the FAA has at least three graphical TFR web sites
now if you include DUATS (FAA funded). What they lack in accuracy
they make up in quantity. :-)