Why does PW-5 get no respect?

Newbie here. I ran across a joke that said the market value for a
used PW-5 was based entirely on what the instruments and trailer were
worth. It appears this issue was beaten to death at one time, but I'm
curious for a paragraph or two explanation of why the ship gets no
respect.

Thanks

The PW5 was the apparent winner of a design competition to create a "single
design" cross country contest glider. And still be usable for the club
(affordable) and beginning (novice) pilot. It came out at about 30 or 31 to
1 L/d. Not truly blistering performance. Others in the competition were the
Blanik L-33 Solo, Russia AC4 (and I think there was another )

There are many very good used gliders on the market for under $30K with a
much higher (41/1 L/d) performance. Most people look to "trade up" to
something with higher performance.

If they learned in a SGS 2-33, then yes, a PW-5 is a "trade up", but if they
learned in ASK-21 or Grob 103s, then the PW-5 is a drastic trade down in
performance. Better to go by the trusty Libelle 201 at 36/1 L/d.

All are good aircraft for what the owner pilot may want to achieve, the L-33
is "all metal" and can sit out in the weather. All are "easy assembly" ,
easy to fly, and good gliders to learn the art of soaring and cross country.
Getting that student more than one thermal away from home airport. But for
the money.. it's hard to compete with 42/1 L/d in the used market.

JMHO
BT

"ISoar" wrote in message
om...
Newbie here. I ran across a joke that said the market value for a
used PW-5 was based entirely on what the instruments and trailer were
worth. It appears this issue was beaten to death at one time, but I'm
curious for a paragraph or two explanation of why the ship gets no
respect.

Thanks

It has been beaten to death and it is kind of sad that that may have damaged
the reputation of the glider. The idea is that a one design class glider
tests the pilot, not the pocketbook. Ultimate performance is not really
significant given this design mission, just performance enough to be fair,
which the PW-5 has.

Many apparently think L/D per dollar is important. If you are one of these,
the PW-5 is probably not for you. Look at things like LAK-17's and
ASW-12's. If all your buddies fly around in 40-1 ships and you want to fly
with them, it is probably not for you either. If beauty is a big factor,
and it kinda is for me, get an ASW-27.

If you want a nice flying glider that has performance for all badge work,
that will give you good experience and that will be competitive in contests
for years and years and years ahead and that is very suitable for record
work and that will not need expensive refinishing every few years and that
will never need the hassles of disposable ballast, you might give it a look.

After owning an obsolete high performance glider in the past I have been
very happy with the B1-PW-5 I got in a partnership a couple of years ago.
This one has all automatic hookups, it is incredibly easy to rig, with very
light wings, and simple to push around, single handed, on the ground. It
seems to be competitive in Sports Class and is cutting edge in PW-5 National
and World Competitions, although one must deal with the unpleasant reality
that bad results are not the fault of an obsolete glider, but to a personal
lack of skill. For record work it is hard to beat at all levels, state,
national and world records are available with equal opportunity for all.
This is not true of many of the gliders it is compared with.

If you need to make up for anatomical deficiences get a Corvette glider. If
you want flying fun and a level competitive playing field at a reasonable
price, you could do worse than a PW-5.

Larry Pardue PW-5 2I


"ISoar" wrote in message
om...
Newbie here. I ran across a joke that said the market value for a
used PW-5 was based entirely on what the instruments and trailer were
worth. It appears this issue was beaten to death at one time, but I'm
curious for a paragraph or two explanation of why the ship gets no
respect.

Thanks

A PW5 is a disaster of a glider that handles on par with a fat cow.
Don't even get me started on it's aesthetic looks.

On a more serious note - a lot of the aversion comes from it's couple
decades-old selection as the World Class glider. This was an extremely
poor choice. We could have had a widely available glider type for a
reasonable price and with a reasonable performance. Instead, we ended
up with an overpriced monster of a 1950's vintage performance. This in
essence killed the World Class.

(ISoar) wrote in message . com...
Newbie here. I ran across a joke that said the market value for a
used PW-5 was based entirely on what the instruments and trailer were
worth. It appears this issue was beaten to death at one time, but I'm
curious for a paragraph or two explanation of why the ship gets no
respect.

Thanks

Assuming this is not a troll, do a PW5 search of RAS
and you can keep yourself occupied for hours with assorted
threads.



At 23:54 19 November 2003, Isoar wrote:
Newbie here. I ran across a joke that said the market
value for a
used PW-5 was based entirely on what the instruments
and trailer were
worth. It appears this issue was beaten to death at
one time, but I'm
curious for a paragraph or two explanation of why the
ship gets no
respect.

Thanks

Lets just say its the automotive equivalent of a Trabant in the sailplane
world.

Al

"ISoar" wrote in message
om...
Newbie here. I ran across a joke that said the market value for a
used PW-5 was based entirely on what the instruments and trailer were
worth. It appears this issue was beaten to death at one time, but I'm
curious for a paragraph or two explanation of why the ship gets no
respect.

Thanks

I am not a pilot who flys a PW5 but my club has several plus several grob
102s
for general flying and competition work.
The one thing is becoming clear the PW5 is a fibreglass equivalent of the K8
,
a low penetration,moderate performance easy to fly and land anywhere
machine.
To get good performance out of them really requires quite a lot of skill .
With their light weight and inertia, when an accident happens the damage to
the glider is usually minimal and the pilot just dusts off their clothes.
The structure damage in an accident is relatively minor and their simple to
fix.
What I have seen in competitions is usually very close tight hard racing
In essence the one design concept works but everybody voices loudly their
opinions on whether the PW5 is "THE" design
gary

"ISoar" wrote in message
om...
Newbie here. I ran across a joke that said the market value for a
used PW-5 was based entirely on what the instruments and trailer were
worth. It appears this issue was beaten to death at one time, but I'm
curious for a paragraph or two explanation of why the ship gets no
respect.

Thanks

It seems that in the sport of gliding there are the
poke around the field folks (who don't fly that much)
and the fly 500k+ folks (some of whom fly
a ton every year) and not too many in between.

The PW-5 is a bit advanced for the 5 hr/year poker,
and really a poor penetrator for most 500km+, 100+hr/yr
pilots.

So it finds a kind of lonely niche in hard-core
one-type record/competition pilots, or pilots
who live at a gliderport which favors its kind
of lift (lots of little lift every few miles).

Midlothian Texas maybe, but the rest of the hard
core glider pilots prefer a PIK-20 or ASW-20 or better
for the penetration. The PW-5 draggy double wheels
don't help a lot for speed...

So the serious X-C pilots guffaw at it. Personally
I would dread a 500k in it just because it would
take over 8 hours. Just planning
and trying to fly a half-dozen 300k flights,
leaving at 2PM means I might not make
it back for Letterman ;-( .

I don't have a clue how those 1-26 pilots did
300k, much less 500k. 10+ hours in
a freakin' glider? Jeez...

There really is something to be said for flying
a super-fast glider in super-strong lift all the
time. This is why some of these pilots live near
Reno, CA :-P

The PW5 is ugly, has a lower performance than the early
1970's gliders (Cirrus and Libelles) and is roughly
the price of a second hand LS4. The entries to the
World Class are falling and is very unlikely to ever
make a popular competition.

It wouldnt have been so bad but it was also was not
the best choice out of the 'World Class' options. Should
have been the L33. Or a more sensible option would
have been to sanction an all LS4/Discus (or similar)
class.

My apologies to PW5 fans but thats my opinion.

Owain

'ISoar' wrote in message
. com...
Newbie here. I ran across a joke that said the market
value for a
used PW-5 was based entirely on what the instruments
and trailer were
worth. It appears this issue was beaten to death
at one time, but I'm
curious for a paragraph or two explanation of why
the ship gets no
respect.

Thanks

I am going to join Your opinion that PW-5 is a good design. It flies =
well, and is considerably affordable when we talk about the price of a =
*NEW* ship, what is most often forgotten by those who criticize the =
"Smyk". There are still some people who don't want to buy pre-owned ship =
with not always clear history.
The second thing what the sceptics foget is that the World Class was =
brought to life to allow joining contests to as wide as possible range =
of pilots. Not only the masters and those who fly 100 hrs a year, but =
also for those who fly just few times a year, but stil would like to =
join the race just for fun. That means that the glider should be very =
easy to fly, and the PW-5 really is...

Of course the performance could be better, but for what price (even =
literally thinking of money)? For harder handling in the air? For =
heavier wings (15m of span would add some kgs to their weight)? Or for =
more problems when building one's own glider from the plans, which was =
also a requirement for the World Class design.

In my opinion the PW-5 is a superb glider (yes, I have flown one a lot) =
for the requirements it had to meet. The only thing I would be different =
is that I would prefer the PW-5 as a taildragger just like the Junior.

Regards,


--=20
Janusz Kesik

visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.css-leszno.it.pl



U=BFytkownik goneill w wiadomo=B6ci do grup =
dyskusyjnych ...
I am not a pilot who flys a PW5 but my club has several plus several =
grob
102s
for general flying and competition work.
The one thing is becoming clear the PW5 is a fibreglass equivalent of =
the K8
,
a low penetration,moderate performance easy to fly and land anywhere
machine.
To get good performance out of them really requires quite a lot of =
skill .
With their light weight and inertia, when an accident happens the =
damage to
the glider is usually minimal and the pilot just dusts off their =
clothes.
The structure damage in an accident is relatively minor and their =
simple to
fix.
What I have seen in competitions is usually very close tight hard =
racing
In essence the one design concept works but everybody voices loudly =
their
opinions on whether the PW5 is "THE" design
gary