Express Aircraft of Olympia WA quits

("Tim B" wrote)
What avionics?
(specs and price $150,000 OBO)
http://www.express-aircraft.com/Aircraft%20Specs.htm


(From the above Express Aircraft Company link)
......CLICK FOR AVIONICS LIST!! g

http://www.express-aircraft.com/511_avionics.htm

N511EA Avionics and Indicators

Sandel SN3308 HSI

Eventide Argus 7000/CE Color Moving Map Display

Bendix King KLN 89B TSO GPS

Bendix King KX 155 TSO NAV / COM Radio

Bendix King KY197A TSO COM Radio

Bendix King KT 76C TSO Digital Transponder

PS Engineering PMA7000MS Stereo Audio Panel with Intelivox and Glide Slope

STEC Model 30 Auto Pilot

JPI EDM-700 Engine Monitor

Angle of Attack Indicator with Voice Prompt

JPI Slimline Fuel Pressure Gage

Annunciator Panel

Daytron M800 Chronometer

Oil Temperature Gage

Oil Pressure Gage

Voltage Meter

Duel Fuel Gage

Amp Gage

Manifold Pressure Gage

Tachometer

Compass with Hour Meter

Electric Elevator Trim with Indicator

Kenwood KDC-7011 Stereo with Motorized Face


Montblack

Jerry Springer wrote:

I can tell you have never seen the inside of a RV-10 have you? Have you
seen one in person?

http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/Rv10/220RV/13_lg.jpg

Just an observation, but that looks like the outside to me. Could be my
internet connection playing tricks on me though... ;-D

Darrel Toepfer wrote:
Jerry Springer wrote:

I can tell you have never seen the inside of a RV-10 have you? Have
you seen one in person?

http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/Rv10/220RV/13_lg.jpg


Just an observation, but that looks like the outside to me. Could be my
internet connection playing tricks on me though... ;-D

Must be your mind playing tricks on you. :-)

The picture was just thrown in for the fun of it. :-)

Jerry

I can tell you have never seen the inside of a RV-10 have you? Have you
seen one in person?

http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/Rv10/220RV/13_lg.jpg


Jerry


no. ( He said very quietly in an almost indecipherable voice...)

Antonio

Express Builder wrote:

The Express assets will be picked up by someone sooner or later. This
kit will never go away. It has always been popular and can be
successful if the group that takes it over sticks to the basics.
History shows the company comes apart when they try to compete with
Lancair or whoever. The Express is a solid design as is. Let's hope
it falls into the right hands.

I wholeheartedly agree. One of the problems with the last incarnation of
this company was the different directions that were pursuing--inverted V-8
version, retractable version, turbocharged version, T-tail, etc.
The new owners should stick to the basics and concentrate on customer
support rather than R&D.

I have flown these many times and they are a wonderful aircraft.

Antonio


The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to capture

the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better company
reputation. Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably
when RV-10 was announced. I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling
the bite too.

KB



Are you kidding me? Take a picture of the RV-10 and place it next to the
Express. Which one is gonna get you the girls?


BOTH! Absolutely BOTH!

Seriously, the two aircraft are in totally different markets. The RV's
are certainly nice machines--I've help build an RV-4, and a 6A -- but
IMO they are more utilitarian and functional than a sleek composite. The
cockpits are not any where near as comfy and they are in the aerobatic
category.


Whoa there pardner, we were not comparing the Express to the RV-4 or RV-6 but
comparing to the RV-10, the new 4-place from Vans. There is a very big
difference that if you haven't seen the RV-10 yet, you would not even begin to
understand. The RV-10 is NOT in the aerobatic category and the cockpit is
everybit as nice as the Express but may be a bit smaller but not by much.

The RV's are designed to appeal to the sporty individual while the
Express would appeal more to the cross country traveler/businessman who
had exceptional taste. ;-)

Antonio

The RV-10 was not designed for the sporty individual, it is very much a cross
country traveler for either the businessman or the family traveler with
exceptional taste. You really need to look before you leap on this subject,
obviously you haven't seen an RV-10 up close or you would not have made the
above statements.



Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

RobertR237 wrote:


Whoa there pardner, we were not comparing the Express to the RV-4 or RV-6 but
comparing to the RV-10, the new 4-place from Vans. There is a very big
difference that if you haven't seen the RV-10 yet, you would not even begin to
understand. The RV-10 is NOT in the aerobatic category and the cockpit is
everybit as nice as the Express but may be a bit smaller but not by much.


You are absolutely right. I jumped to the conclusion without even
looking that the RV-10 was the same old stuff as the previous models.
I stand corrected.

Antonio

RobertR237 wrote:



The RV's are designed to appeal to the sporty individual while the
Express would appeal more to the cross country traveler/businessman who
had exceptional taste. ;-)

Antonio


The RV-10 was not designed for the sporty individual, it is very much a cross
country traveler for either the businessman or the family traveler with
exceptional taste. You really need to look before you leap on this subject,
obviously you haven't seen an RV-10 up close or you would not have made the
above statements.


Comparing notes from Express web page and from Van's web page the RV-10 is 2"
wider both front and back seat. Head room may be a little bit shorter in the
RV-10 but at 6'3" there is still room to spare for me in the back seat. I could
not believe how much room there is in that airplane.

Jerry



Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

The RV's are designed to appeal to the sporty individual while the
Express would appeal more to the cross country traveler/businessman who
had exceptional taste. ;-)

Antonio


The RV-10 was not designed for the sporty individual, it is very much a
cross
country traveler for either the businessman or the family traveler with
exceptional taste. You really need to look before you leap on this
subject,
obviously you haven't seen an RV-10 up close or you would not have made the
above statements.


Comparing notes from Express web page and from Van's web page the RV-10 is 2"
wider both front and back seat. Head room may be a little bit shorter in the
RV-10 but at 6'3" there is still room to spare for me in the back seat. I
could
not believe how much room there is in that airplane.

Jerry


Jerry,

I won't argue your numbers but wasn't comparing the numbers as much as the
experience of setting in the fron and back seats of both aircraft. They are
both roughly equal in pilot and copilot comfort unless you count the seats that
they put in the RV-10 which are exceptional. The back seat in the Express is
another story though. In some versions of the Express, they were setup as six
passenger aircraft with an added storage pod under the fuselage. The interior
room of the Express is very deep and the rear seat is much further back from
the front seat. The RV-10 rear seat is better than most 4-place GA aircraft
but not near the Express.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

I was seriously considering the Express at one point. The cruise at 16,000
ft with RG and Turbo was about 230 knots (265 mph IIRC). RG probably
bought about 5-6 kts. RG not really worth it if you ask me. I think
cranking the cruise up and paying the extra wear plus gas is cheaper than
the additional insurance and gear maintenance. I suspect I would be eating
those words on an engine out trying to stretch the glide of the fixed gear.

The big thing for me is Turbo to get into the lower FL and crank the speed
up. It's what makes the Columbia 400 so attractive. I would love to see
the RV 10 get the 310 HP TSIO 540 engine in their airplane.


"Jerry Springer" wrote in message
k.net...
I find it hard to believe that a RG version would make that much
difference.

Here is a link to their web site that has their demonstrator for sale with
a
310hp engine.

http://www.express-aircraft.com/


Jerry (I could be wrong) Springer

Tim B wrote:

Vans is 200 smph. Express had 310 HP TSIO RG versions that would rival
the Lancair 400 at FL 180
"Jerry Springer" wrote in message
k.net...

Marc J. Zeitlin wrote:

Kyle Boatright wrote:



The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to

capture


the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better

company


reputation.


Yes - that market, the RV-10 will own, for those folks that don't mind
burning 13 gal/hr. to get it.



......Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably
when RV-10 was announced.


I'm not sure about that - the Express is a lot faster, IIRC - I'm not
sure they're the same market.


How do you figure it is a lot faster? I don't know anything about an
Express
other than what their web site says and it says 175kts cruise. Vans says
the RV-10 cruises at 200-201 that seems to be about the same cruise
speed.


Jerry



.....I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too.


I don't know about the Velocity, but COZY plans are still selling at the
same rate that they were prior to the RV-10's announcement. Those two
planes are really NOT the same market, due to speed, fuel consumption,
and load capacity. So far, the RV-10 and COZY are orthogonal, not
competing.

" You want to build, get a set of plans to something _you_ can build. You want
to fly, buy a new Maule. You want to fly faster, buy an L-39."

I forgot who wrote that but it's true, isn't it?