Touch and Goes versus Full Stop Taxi Backs

On 11 Sep 2005 18:40:08 -0700, "Tony" wrote:

For the record, I don't like Touch and Goes on short runways, but 5000
feet gives you more than enough time to slow down to a walk, d

When my instructor got frustrated at the difficulty I was having in,
let's say, *interfacing* with the runway, we flew 20 miles to another
airport with a loooong runway, so I could practice flying down it at
six inches off the ground. That runway is 4000 ft.

In the Cub, 5000 feet is almost long enough to qualify as
cross-country.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

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Even my docile 172 needed such a major trim shift during the
flap-retraction-carb heat-off-throttle-up-and-go part that I quit doing
T & Gs some years back.

I do T&Gs in light twins. I don't think the work load is that much more
than in a 172. One lands using the regular checklist. When landing one
normally looks ahead to the potential need for a go-around anyway. In a
T&G one then touches down and proceeds to go around. Once back in the
air the normal takeoff checklist plus retract the flaps. Then there is
plenty of time in the circuit to think and prepare for the next landing
or T&G.


Jim Burns wrote:
There will come a day when you'll want to fly something that is
not so docile as a Cherokee or a 172. When that day comes, you'll be
prepared to follow the checklists and may avoid an unrecoverable mistake.

The subject of touch and gos in the student scenario has been a long time
pro and con issue in the industry and the answers will vary . A lot will
depend on where you fly and the runway and traffic conditions at that
location as to weather or not touch and gos are either useful of
recommended.
Personally, from a flight instructor's point of view, I initially prefer
full stop landings with primary students, then possibly touch and gos later
along the learning curve as conditions dictate or permit. Toward this aim, I
always took students into the pattern initially by flying to and using
outlying fields that were conducive to this type of instruction if flying
out of heavily controlled environments.
I firmly believe that the time spent with the student BETWEEN patterns is
invaluable for teaching purposes. It gives the student time to relax and
absorb a critique on what has just been done; what changes are recommended
by the instructor; and also allows time for the student to think about those
recommended changes before the next take off.
This of course describes the dual situation.
Solo patterns by students should be adjusted to suit conditions and the
desired goal of the training mission as set forth by the instructor.
Remember.......it's the quality of the work, not necessarily the quantity of
the work that matters! :-)
I have no objection to a well supervised and well checked out student doing
touch and gos on runways where traffic conditions and runway length suggest
a better use of time for the student. In fact, part of a student's training
involves balked landings and go arounds. Touch and gos are the perfect
opportunity to practice these essential pilot skills.
Keep in mind, I said "well checked out". This would include a thorough
coverage by the instructor on the skills mentioned above BEFORE entering
this environment.
Dudley Henriques


"Kevin Dunlevy" wrote in message
...
A CFI I had lunch with last week suggested I should always do full stop
taxi
backs instead of touch and goes when practicing landings. I've frequently
done touch and goes for about an hour when I wanted to do some quick
flying,
but I tried his suggestion. I also ran into an old AOPA Flight Training
magazine that had an article suggesting full stop taxi backs instead of
touch and goes. I generally keep the pattern in tight and can do ten touch
and goes in about .8 or .9 Hobbs depending on the amount of other traffic.
I
prefer towered airports for this practice, because there is another set of
eyes looking for aircraft.

Should I force myself to always do full stop taxi backs, even thought
other
pilots and tower personnel seem to prefer that I do touch and goes? Kevin
Dunlevy

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message
link.net...
The subject of touch and gos in the student scenario has been a long time
pro and con issue in the industry and the answers will vary . ...snip...
Personally, from a flight instructor's point of view, I initially prefer
full stop landings with primary students, then possibly touch and gos
later along the learning curve as conditions dictate or permit.

Dudley Henriques



My (fairly large) school has a blanket policy of *no* T & G for student
solo.

Dual, they will have you practice landings T & G pretty much right from the
beginning.... but the right seat always handles the flaps. In a 172, I
don't find a great trim difference between TO position, and 65-knot-landing
position, as mention by another post. Trim adjustment is not a big deal.

I anticipated that somewhere along the line they would let me do full T & G,
at least dual, but it has never come up, and I am nearing checkride time
(well...:, maybe...). So it would have to be something I'd have to
specifically request of the instructor...

"Icebound" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message
link.net...
The subject of touch and gos in the student scenario has been a long time
pro and con issue in the industry and the answers will vary . ...snip...
Personally, from a flight instructor's point of view, I initially prefer
full stop landings with primary students, then possibly touch and gos
later along the learning curve as conditions dictate or permit.

Dudley Henriques



My (fairly large) school has a blanket policy of *no* T & G for student
solo.

Dual, they will have you practice landings T & G pretty much right from
the beginning.... but the right seat always handles the flaps. In a 172,
I don't find a great trim difference between TO position, and
65-knot-landing position, as mention by another post. Trim adjustment is
not a big deal.

I anticipated that somewhere along the line they would let me do full T &
G, at least dual, but it has never come up, and I am nearing checkride
time (well...:, maybe...). So it would have to be something I'd have to
specifically request of the instructor...

All I can tell you based on what you have said here is that your school uses
methods I would never recommend, and have never used myself. I guess this is
why there are different methods being used out there :-)
Dudley Henriques

My (fairly large) school has a blanket policy of *no* T & G for student
solo.

Maybe I'm just being cynical, but this sure sounds like a great way to pad
the Hobbs time on the rental planes...

Dual, they will have you practice landings T & G pretty much right from
the beginning.... but the right seat always handles the flaps.

Interesting. I've never heard of a CFII working the flaps while the student
flew. However, having been in a "sinking Cessna" once, many moons ago,
after inadvertently retracting the flaps at full power, low altitude and low
airspeed, I suppose that may make some sense.

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

My (fairly large) school has a blanket policy of *no*
T & G for student solo.

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
Maybe I'm just being cynical, but this sure sounds like
a great way to pad the Hobbs time on the rental planes...

Jay, at a large flight school in CA, they have the "no T&G for student
solo" rule also. It's not to pad the Hobbs time, it is a safety
precaution, because their runway is only 1900 feet long. I'm not sure if
they insist on that throughout the training, but when they first start
soloing, they are not allowed to do T&Gs there.

In article ,
unicate wrote:

Jay, at a large flight school in CA, they have the "no T&G for student
solo" rule also. It's not to pad the Hobbs time, it is a safety
precaution, because their runway is only 1900 feet long.

isn't that really a different issue? Regardless of the safety or danger
or T&G's in general, only having 1900' isn't really enough to do
T&G's in the typical cessna or piper anyway.

Several airports in MA prohibit T&G's and their runways are
around 2500'.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

unicate wrote:

My (fairly large) school has a blanket policy of *no*
T & G for student solo.


"Jay Honeck" wrote:

Maybe I'm just being cynical, but this sure sounds like
a great way to pad the Hobbs time on the rental planes...


Jay, at a large flight school in CA, they have the "no T&G for student
solo" rule also. It's not to pad the Hobbs time, it is a safety
precaution, because their runway is only 1900 feet long. I'm not sure if
they insist on that throughout the training, but when they first start
soloing, they are not allowed to do T&Gs there.

That is interesting as a properly executed T&G will use less runway.

Matt