VFR "picking his way thru" heavy cells with XM Radio weather

Peter R. wrote:


Here's the clip. I uploaded it to a free file hosting site and then attempted
to copy the direct download link, bypassing the annoying
wait-30-seconds-to-read-the-ads page. If the download doesn't work, let me
know and I will upload it to a different location:
/snip/
http://download2-6.files-upload.com/.../XMweather.mp3


"The page you are looking for is temporarily unavailable.
Please try again later."

On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 16:11:53 -0400, "Peter R."
wrote in :


http://download2-6.files-upload.com/.../XMweather.mp3

This link doesn't work for me.

On 6/4/2007 5:18:31 PM, Scott Skylane wrote:

Peter R. wrote:


Here's the clip. I uploaded it to a free file hosting site and then attempted
to copy the direct download link, bypassing the annoying
wait-30-seconds-to-read-the-ads page. If the download doesn't work, let me
know and I will upload it to a different location:
/snip/
http://download2-6.files-upload.com/.../XMweather.mp3


"The page you are looking for is temporarily unavailable.
Please try again later."

OK, disregard that link. I don't want to put you through the 30 second wait
time to read all the ads. Instead I resurrected my web space that used to
house my website. For the time being it is my free file host. Here's the
file:

http://thericcs.net/files/XMweather.mp3

I really need to put up some flying pages. That would be a good use of the
site.

--
Peter

Peter R. wrote:
Here's the clip. I uploaded it to a free file hosting site and then
attempted to copy the direct download link, bypassing the annoying
wait-30-seconds-to-read-the-ads page.

Unfortunately, they're ahead of you. They're checking referrers (or a
similar technique) so the direct links won't work; this gets their ad
impressions up and keeps their bandwidth bill down. Somebody else tried
to post a direct link to files-upload.com here recently and it didn't
work - you need to find and post the link to the "wait for ads" page.

The link that didn't work was similar to the one you posted:

http://downloadX-Y.files-upload.com/...e-filename.ext

The link that does work will look something like this:

http://files-upload.com/files/NNNNNN/the-filename.ext

If the download doesn't work, let me know and I will upload it to a
different location:

Most every ISP gives you a few megs of personal Web space and that works
well for things like this. You could also post it to
alt.binaries.multimedia.aviation , but in these latter days, most people
won't know how to retrieve it from there.

Matt Roberds

On 6/4/2007 6:05:36 PM, wrote:

Unfortunately, they're ahead of you.

Yep, it was a long shot. If you hadn't seen my other post, I put the clip to
some webspace I had in my back pocket but hadn't used in years.

--
Peter

"Peter R." wrote

Having only the audio side and being a third party bystander to this
moment,
I am not sure I really have the proper perspective to be able to
accurately
do so.

Right. It sounds like he was using some bad judgment, but there are no
AIM's against that.

Nobody but him knows if he was still in legal VFC. My guess would be that
he was in the clear, looking at the cells out the window, and at the XM to
try and predict where the cells were moving.
--
Jim in NC

I did not state that my experience was the same, or even similar. Rather, I
was trying to make the point that Nexrad is not a good tool for penetrating
a line of CB's, due to the time delay in receiving the information.

On Jun 4, 1:58 pm, Larry Dighera wrote:

I understand your reluctance to squeal on a fellow airman, but how are
you going to feel when you learn that his ineptitude has caused his,
and perhaps the deaths of others?

It might be reasonable to contact the airman directly. Just a
thought.

FSDO : Hello Larry?
Larry : Yes?
FSDO : Some guy on the internet called us because he didn't think
you used good judgement on your flight last Saturday afternoon.
Larry : Who is this guy? Was he in the air at the time? Is he a
controller?
FSDO : Nope, just some random guy on the internet who has decided,
from a few scraps of data on the internet, that your WX judgement is
not up to snuff.
Larry : But he wasn't even there. Did I break any regs?
FSDO : There's no evidence that you broke any regs, Larry. It
doesn't really matter though. What does matter is the opinion of
some guy on the internet, and how, from the safety of his chair, he
has determined that you messed up enough to warrant a report to the
FSDO.

Maybe this guy messed up, maybe what he did was well within the
regs. Personally, I don't know how much weight this guy was actually
placing in his XM weather, as opposed to what he was seeing out the
window. The fact is, no one on this newsgroup knows that. I think
the idea of reporting someone to the FSDO because you think your
judgement (sitting behind a keyboard) is superior to what you think
his judgement might have been, is absurd.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:49:34 -0700, John Galban
wrote in .com:

On Jun 4, 1:58 pm, Larry Dighera wrote:

I understand your reluctance to squeal on a fellow airman, but how are
you going to feel when you learn that his ineptitude has caused his,
and perhaps the deaths of others?

It might be reasonable to contact the airman directly. Just a
thought.

FSDO : Hello Larry?
Larry : Yes?
FSDO : Some guy on the internet called us because he didn't think
you used good judgement on your flight last Saturday afternoon.
Larry : Who is this guy? Was he in the air at the time? Is he a
controller?
FSDO : Nope, just some random guy on the internet who has decided,
from a few scraps of data on the internet, that your WX judgement is
not up to snuff.
Larry : But he wasn't even there. Did I break any regs?
FSDO : There's no evidence that you broke any regs, Larry. It
doesn't really matter though. What does matter is the opinion of
some guy on the internet, and how, from the safety of his chair, he
has determined that you messed up enough to warrant a report to the
FSDO.

Maybe this guy messed up, maybe what he did was well within the
regs. Personally, I don't know how much weight this guy was actually
placing in his XM weather, as opposed to what he was seeing out the
window. The fact is, no one on this newsgroup knows that. I think
the idea of reporting someone to the FSDO because you think your
judgement (sitting behind a keyboard) is superior to what you think
his judgement might have been, is absurd.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)



John,

My suggestion was to the OP who was listening to the ATC exchanges,
had some radar WX data, and is familiar with the area.

My understanding of what occurred is that the line of CBs was moving
north toward the intended airport of arrival while the C-712 pilot was
moving east toward the airport. Without knowledge of the locations of
the cells, I agree, it's difficult to know just how much danger the
pilot was in, but when he turned south to wait out the weather it
would seem that he'd have to have gone right through them. But who
knows?

The XM input on the G-1000 specifically states that the displayed NEXRAD
weather cannot and should not be used to aviod rapidly moving storm cells.

NEXRAD also suffers from attenuation larger cells blocking other cells "on
the other side" of the cell from the radar transmitter.

BT

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
I was listening to LiveATC.net's feed of Syracuse, NY, yesterday (Sunday)
during the approach of a large thunderstorm line that was moving towards
the
airport from the south. At one point a VFR a Cessna 172, approaching the
airport from the west, checked in stating his intention to land at SYR.

As the C172 progressed, the controller called the pilot to report that the
aircraft was eight miles from and heading directly towards a line of
extreme
weather. The pilot responded in a somewhat unappreciative tone that he was
"painting" it. The controller responded with a rather surprised,
"Roger."

Moments later the controller again called to warn the pilot of extreme
weather at his twelve o'clock. The pilot then replied in what sounded like
an
annoyed tone that he was "picking our way through the weather using our
XM."
Again, the controller replied with a surprised "Roger."

With a quiet moment on the frequency, the controller called the pilot a
third
time to ask him to explain what XM meant. The pilot described the concept
of
XM NEXRAD on his Garmin 396, but then added that the refresh rate allowed
him
to see heavy weather on the 398 from 2 to 8 minutes old.

When I heard that the refresh rate was up to 8 minutes old, I cringed to
think that this pilot (this one didn't sound like an experienced freight
dog
to me, but maybe I was wrong) was picking his way through a field of
thunderstorms on a day where returns went from light to extreme in less
than
ten minutes.

Granted that the pilot was VFR so presumably he was seeing and avoiding
using
the outside picture primarily. But this day it was a typical northeast US
hazy and humid day with visibility around the 6 to 8 mile range, so having
the Garmin 396 for strategic avoidance was a good thing. It still made me
sweat from the comfort of my office chair to imagine that this pilot was
flying through the weather line using up to 8 minute old data (not even
considering the NEXRAD delay before the picture is uplinked to the XM
satellites) and declining the more real-time weather guidance offered by
ATC
(SYR approach has excellent weather radar).

Eventually a thunderstorm cell erupted right over the airport, resulting
in
numerous wind shear alerts and at least one microburst alert, so the pilot
called approach to state his intention of diverting southeast towards an
airport 50 nm south of SYR to wait out the weather.

--
Peter