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#1
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Cancelling IFR in Bravo airspace
On a few occasions I have filed a departure procedure to a nearby
intersection just to get on top (comments section reads "IFR to VFR on top"). After breaking out of the clouds and advising ATC of the bases and tops, I usually cancel IFR and proceed "own nav" with flight following. Which brings me to my question, if I cancel inside Bravo airspace do I have an implicit clearance because I got there under IFR in the first place, or is it common practice for ATC to give an explicit clearance? I ask because I'm a new instrument rated pilot and I'm pretty sure both scenarios have happened to me recently. Thanks in advance. |
#2
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Cancelling IFR in Bravo airspace
Terence Wilson wrote:
On a few occasions I have filed a departure procedure to a nearby intersection just to get on top (comments section reads "IFR to VFR on top"). After breaking out of the clouds and advising ATC of the bases and tops, I usually cancel IFR and proceed "own nav" with flight following. Which brings me to my question, if I cancel inside Bravo airspace do I have an implicit clearance because I got there under IFR in the first place, or is it common practice for ATC to give an explicit clearance? I ask because I'm a new instrument rated pilot and I'm pretty sure both scenarios have happened to me recently. Thanks in advance. You have no idea of what ATC needs to do with you if you cancel on an IFR climnb to on-top. So, keep it simple, and stay with the IFR clearance until either above or otherwise clear of the Class B airspace. |
#3
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Cancelling IFR in Bravo airspace
On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:15:04 -0700, Sam Spade
wrote: You have no idea of what ATC needs to do with you if you cancel on an IFR climnb to on-top. So, keep it simple, and stay with the IFR clearance until either above or otherwise clear of the Class B airspace. On the last two occasions ATC has queried whether I was on top yet and then asked what my intention was, I cancelled, and continued on my merry way inside Bravo. So obviously they were ok with it, but my original question stands, am I cleared into the class B after I canel in class B? |
#4
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Cancelling IFR in Bravo airspace
Terence Wilson wrote:
So obviously they were ok with it, but my original question stands, am I cleared into the class B after I canel in class B? Did you receive an ATC clearance from the ATC facility having jurisdiction for that area before operating an aircraft in that area? Only one clearance is required. |
#5
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Cancelling IFR in Bravo airspace
Terence Wilson wrote:
On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:15:04 -0700, Sam Spade wrote: You have no idea of what ATC needs to do with you if you cancel on an IFR climnb to on-top. So, keep it simple, and stay with the IFR clearance until either above or otherwise clear of the Class B airspace. On the last two occasions ATC has queried whether I was on top yet and then asked what my intention was, I cancelled, and continued on my merry way inside Bravo. So obviously they were ok with it, but my original question stands, am I cleared into the class B after I canel in class B? If my clearance limit for the IFR climb was inside Class B I would reply, "I request a clearance to outside Class B before I cancel." It's your butt that's on the line, not their's. Or, just say "negative" when they ask if you're on top, thus forcing a clearance out of the quagmire. |
#6
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Cancelling IFR in Bravo airspace
On 08/07/08 06:21, Sam Spade wrote:
Terence Wilson wrote: On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:15:04 -0700, Sam Spade wrote: You have no idea of what ATC needs to do with you if you cancel on an IFR climnb to on-top. So, keep it simple, and stay with the IFR clearance until either above or otherwise clear of the Class B airspace. On the last two occasions ATC has queried whether I was on top yet and then asked what my intention was, I cancelled, and continued on my merry way inside Bravo. So obviously they were ok with it, but my original question stands, am I cleared into the class B after I canel in class B? If my clearance limit for the IFR climb was inside Class B I would reply, "I request a clearance to outside Class B before I cancel." It's your butt that's on the line, not their's. Or, just say "negative" when they ask if you're on top, thus forcing a clearance out of the quagmire. I'm confused about why you believe you have to lie about being on top. When asked for your intentions, why not just say "Remain IFR until clear of Class Bravo"? -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
#7
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Cancelling IFR in Bravo airspace
Mark Hansen wrote:
On 08/07/08 06:21, Sam Spade wrote: Terence Wilson wrote: On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:15:04 -0700, Sam Spade wrote: You have no idea of what ATC needs to do with you if you cancel on an IFR climnb to on-top. So, keep it simple, and stay with the IFR clearance until either above or otherwise clear of the Class B airspace. On the last two occasions ATC has queried whether I was on top yet and then asked what my intention was, I cancelled, and continued on my merry way inside Bravo. So obviously they were ok with it, but my original question stands, am I cleared into the class B after I canel in class B? If my clearance limit for the IFR climb was inside Class B I would reply, "I request a clearance to outside Class B before I cancel." It's your butt that's on the line, not their's. Or, just say "negative" when they ask if you're on top, thus forcing a clearance out of the quagmire. I'm confused about why you believe you have to lie about being on top. When asked for your intentions, why not just say "Remain IFR until clear of Class Bravo"? That would work, too. In any case, my interptretation of when I am legally on top may differ from your's. The typical kee-jerk response is to "please the controller" and report on top when just breaking out in the clear. |
#8
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Cancelling IFR in Bravo airspace
In article ,
Sam Spade wrote: Terence Wilson wrote: On a few occasions I have filed a departure procedure to a nearby intersection just to get on top (comments section reads "IFR to VFR on top"). After breaking out of the clouds and advising ATC of the bases and tops, I usually cancel IFR and proceed "own nav" with flight following. Which brings me to my question, if I cancel inside Bravo airspace do I have an implicit clearance because I got there under IFR in the first place, or is it common practice for ATC to give an explicit clearance? I ask because I'm a new instrument rated pilot and I'm pretty sure both scenarios have happened to me recently. Thanks in advance. You have no idea of what ATC needs to do with you if you cancel on an IFR climnb to on-top. So, keep it simple, and stay with the IFR clearance until either above or otherwise clear of the Class B airspace. Like me, by the sound of things Terence flies out of Oakland (KOAK) in NorCal Approach territory (in 2BG, no less :-)). On the usual "get out of Oakland" OTP clearance (e.g. vectors for REBAS or SGD), NorCal makes it very clear they want you to cancel as soon as possible -- "advise when clear of clouds" often followed by terse questions about whether you've broken out on top or not -- and can get quite audibly irritated if you don't cancel ASAP (as I discovered a while back :-)). Given the traffic routing into and out of KOAK and KSFO in the vicinity of path between KOAK and REBAS (for example), I guess I don't blame them -- and you end up canceling inside the Class B airspace, typically somewhere abeam Emeryville or Berkeley (or Hayward if you're going the other way). At which point you typically get told to resume own nav, VFR, with flight following. Having said all that, I guess I've always assumed that if they cut me loose like that deep in the Class B airspace they've at least implicitly cleared me into that airspace already. But then in the last few years NorCal has had a lot of trouble with the c word when it comes to KSFO's Class B. I've approached or departed Oakland VFR many times and been given an altitude assignment (for traffic or whatever) that puts me into the Class B without hearing the magic "cleared into the Class B...". It's been a common complaint 'round here for quite a while; yet NorCal controllers tend to get irritated if you ask whether you've been cleared into the Class B airspace... Hamish |
#9
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Cancelling IFR in Bravo airspace
Sam Spade wrote:
Terence Wilson wrote: On a few occasions I have filed a departure procedure to a nearby intersection just to get on top (comments section reads "IFR to VFR on top"). After breaking out of the clouds and advising ATC of the bases and tops, I usually cancel IFR and proceed "own nav" with flight following. Which brings me to my question, if I cancel inside Bravo airspace do I have an implicit clearance because I got there under IFR in the first place, or is it common practice for ATC to give an explicit clearance? I ask because I'm a new instrument rated pilot and I'm pretty sure both scenarios have happened to me recently. Thanks in advance. You have no idea of what ATC needs to do with you if you cancel on an IFR climnb to on-top. So, keep it simple, and stay with the IFR clearance until either above or otherwise clear of the Class B airspace. Hogwash. Cancelling IFR only makes ATC's life easier. Less separation is required. You do not need to prenegotiate....."Ah, approach, I'll cancel if you give me clearance out of the class B." |
#10
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Cancelling IFR in Bravo airspace
Terence Wilson wrote:
On a few occasions I have filed a departure procedure to a nearby intersection just to get on top (comments section reads "IFR to VFR on top"). After breaking out of the clouds and advising ATC of the bases and tops, I usually cancel IFR and proceed "own nav" with flight following. Which brings me to my question, if I cancel inside Bravo airspace do I have an implicit clearance because I got there under IFR in the first place, or is it common practice for ATC to give an explicit clearance? Is your clearance limit inside Class B airspace? |
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