Ethanol Mandate for Iowa?

Isn't Brazil flying a Cessna with gasahol or something like that?


-------------
Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI


RST Engineering wrote:
So, rather than bitching about the world turning to a gasahol blend of some
sort (which it seems to be doing) let's light a fire under those who hold
the STCs to determine WHY gasahol is bad for the aircraft environment and do
something about it.

I do not quite understand why gasahol burns well in old Ford tractors that
use Marvel carburetors and is prohibited in aircraft with Marvel
carburetors, other than some bureaucrat with a bad comb-over deciding it is
so. And, if there IS some sort of special part in the fuel system that is
attacked by ethanol, it isn't rocket science to specify a material for that
part that is NOT eaten by alcohol.

We can attack the problem politically and get buried under sheer numbers of
farmers vs. pilots or we can attack the problem with engineering and solve
it. Simply kvetching that we won't be able to play with our toy airplanes
like we used to be able to do isn't going to cut it.

Just like "pilots without medicals" (LSA) was denied for years, we CAN get
something done if we want it bad enough.

Jim

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
Regardless, the price (around here, anyway) went up 72% in a period of
a few weeks, yet oil prices only went up a smidge. (Of course, as we
already hashed over in previous posts, most of the price run up was due
to refining capacity and the market over-shooting a sustainable price.)




Well this was covered quite well both in this group and the media. The
reason gas went up was because of lose and feared lose of refining ability
not the price of crude.

In article ,
"JohnH" wrote:
What the heck is in an aircraft engine/fuel system that can't be made
"ethanol safe" for more than a few bucks worth of rubber seals?

Really. Solve the problem, not the symptom.

It seems like the problem is excessive regulation, leading to shortages
in supply. The sumptom is a fabricated need for products like
"gasohol." So I'm all for solving the problem.



JKG

Dave Stadt opined

"Jay Masino" wrote in message
...

You're correct, but that doesn't negate the fact that there's only a
certain amount of oil in the ground, and it's not gonna last forever.
It's hard to argue with the concept of growing some corn or soybeans and
making fuel from it. Even if it's not the complete answer, it still
starts the ball rolling towards weening ourselves from fossile fuels.

Your last atatement is not true, it actually increases slightly our
dependence on fossil fuels. It is very easy to argue that growing corn for
fuel makes no sense, in fact if all the facts are looked at it isn't even an
argument.

That's not qite true. We could use coal, nuclear or other non-oil sources of
energy to make the fertilizer and distill the ethanol. Then we would save oil.

Of course coal has global warming problems, new nukes are out at the moment
and windmills have a problem with the ESA.

Gasahol is a baroque wqy to liquify coal.





-ash
Cthulhu in 2005!
Why wait for nature?

"Jay Masino" wrote in message
...


sfb wrote:
political boondoggle as it costs more BTUs to manufacture than it
provides.

Oh. I didn't know that.



That would be because there are equally impressive studies that show a 35
percent energy GAIN after growing and distilling.

And still others that show that the same energy required to produce 1 BTU of
Gasoline Energy, will produce as much as 8 BTU of ethanol energy, and that
it is *gasoline* which is inefficient to produce, by comparison.

http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html

So take your pick as to which religion to believe.

That's not qite true. We could use coal, nuclear or other non-oil sources of
energy to make the fertilizer and distill the ethanol. Then we would save oil.

Would you care to expand on how we can economically make "fertilizer" from fuel? Are you refering to ammonia?



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Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

The problem is if you use a gallon of Ethanol to produce 0.99 gallons of
Ethanol all of the fuel produced will go into production and you are going
to have to add .01 petro just to break even.

then could it still have a practical use as a means of storing
energy instead? I mean, producing ethanol using the output of
say nuclear plants (ok, replace that with wind mills or whatever
takes your fancy if 'nuclear' is against your religion); it was
my (probably mistaken) understanding that the output of a nuclear
plant could not easily be throttled up or down...

any recommendation about some good reading on the subject of
alternative fuel technologies?

--Sylvain

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...

Or makes the steel and plastic tractor, or runs and feeds the fertilizer plant.

Approximately 25% of the U.S. ammonia production was shutdown and plants have been permanently mothballed or
dismantled and sold to Asian countries. This was before this most recent go around with high gas prices. Around 80
to 85% of the cost of producing ammonia is directly related to the price of natural gas. Many producers are eyeing
off shore production in places like Trinidad. I am very concerned for the welfare of any high energy consuming
manufacturing facility in the U.S. It appears our day in the sun has passed.



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Icebound wrote:
That would be because there are equally impressive studies that show a 35
percent energy GAIN after growing and distilling.

And still others that show that the same energy required to produce 1 BTU of
Gasoline Energy, will produce as much as 8 BTU of ethanol energy, and that
it is *gasoline* which is inefficient to produce, by comparison.

http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html

So take your pick as to which religion to believe.


Well... I'll atleast hope that you're facts are the correct ones!

--- Jay



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sfb wrote:
Do you have a patent on magic BTUs? Petroleum BTUs are used grow and
distill corn into ethanol.

Although, more and more, farm equipment is being run on biodiesel, because
the farm industry is backing it and encouraging farmers to use it.

--- Jay


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__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
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http://www.oc-Adolfos.com