NATCA Going Down in Flames

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message

Which is, ultimately, the way it ought to be. You vote with your feet.

Not if you've got a union to fight for you. That's what they're there
for.

Only if you're being treated illegally. Otherwise, it's the union
escalating things for their own ends.

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Computer programmers. We make that sort of money, and we sure as hell
don't have a mandatory retirement at 55 or whatever it is for them.


56

wrote in message
oups.com...

I am with Jay on this one, Years ago unions were a good thing to keep
miners from getting killed in the workplace. Now the unions motive is
to perpetuate their existance by working up supposable smart humans
over something that should be a No brainer. If I remember right the
adverage salary for a ATC worker this year was 72,500, with some raking
in 171,300. For that pay they shouldn't even contest not being able to
wear flip flops to work. What other profession can dress like that and
earn that kind of cash, well other then Jimmy Buffet.????


Have you ever seen a controller dressed like that?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...

I am with Jay on this one, Years ago unions were a good thing to keep
miners from getting killed in the workplace. Now the unions motive is
to perpetuate their existance by working up supposable smart humans
over something that should be a No brainer. If I remember right the
adverage salary for a ATC worker this year was 72,500, with some raking
in 171,300. For that pay they shouldn't even contest not being able to
wear flip flops to work. What other profession can dress like that and
earn that kind of cash, well other then Jimmy Buffet.????


Have you ever seen a controller dressed like that?


I have and it was at a safety meeting. People left the meeting laughing at
him and his unprofessional demeanor. He earned and received no credability.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

I have and it was at a safety meeting. People left the meeting laughing
at him and his unprofessional demeanor. He earned and received no
credability.

Nor should he. But controllers dressed like that were clearly the exception
and the problem could have been remedied simply by banning cut-offs and
flip-flops. What the impose instead can only have a negative effect.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...
I have and it was at a safety meeting. People left the meeting laughing
at him and his unprofessional demeanor. He earned and received no
credability.

Nor should he. But controllers dressed like that were clearly the exception
and the problem could have been remedied simply by banning cut-offs and
flip-flops. What the impose instead can only have a negative effect.


But why is the union making such a big deal about it? To tell employees
that a supervisor making a comment about dress constitutes a "meeting",
well...that's why I'm glad we don't have unions at my particular part of
the company.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...
Nor should he. But controllers dressed like that were clearly the
exception
and the problem could have been remedied simply by banning cut-offs and
flip-flops. What the impose instead can only have a negative effect.

But they should be equal in what they are banning... Exactly what
constitutes flip-flops? If a man's open healed leather sandals are banned,
then many women's shoes should also be banned... Many women's blouses do not
have collars and are not in the least considered casual... Personally, I
don't care what they are wearing... I would prefer them to be comfortable so
that they don't allow me to attempt to takeoff from the 3000 ft runway
instead of the 7000 ft one... Oh, wait a minute... My plane doesn't have a
problem taking off from the 3000 ft runway... Oh well... Never mind...

Seriously though... Let 'me be comfortable... If they don't want them to
wear shorts and t-shirts, turn up the air-conditioning... That'll put a stop
to that fashion trend... Hell, back at NASA, we had this one room that the
air-conditioning was so good that people would bring parkas when it was 100F
outside... It was the TFCR -- Transitional Flight Control Room... I would
always answer the phone, "Cryrogenic Research"... Even during late night
test times, NO ONE considered wearing shorts and a t-shirt...

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...



Have you ever seen a controller dressed like that?


I have and it was at a safety meeting. People left the meeting laughing
at him and his unprofessional demeanor. He earned and received no
credability.
I remember the media pictures of the controllers on strike in 1981, dressed
like crap, while picketing. It sure didn't lend them any credibility.

Matt Barrow wrote:

I remember the media pictures of the controllers on strike in 1981, dressed
like crap, while picketing. It sure didn't lend them any credibility.

There's a picket line dress code? G

In a past life, I spent some time picketing, and I thought you were
supposed to look poor.

A nice suit and a Beemer don't usually do much for public support during
a work stoppage.

On 4 Sep 2006 05:04:28 -0700, "Jay Honeck" wrote
in .com:

Unbelievable! They're [NATCA union members] actually going to fight
against their employer for dictating what they must wear to work...

Actually, the union is fulfilling its role of representing their
membership's voice to management. That's what unions do. What would
you have the union do to earn its member's dues? If the union is seen
as capitulating at every one of management's demands, they won't be
perceived as a useful entity worthy of attracting members.

Apparently their [the union members] right to look like bums in a
professional setting has been violated, and the union is going on
the offensive!

I will say, that I was a little surprised at the casual attire with
which SoCal TRACON personnel were clad during an Operation Raincheck
visit, but given that it was a darkened room, and not generally open
to the public, it didn't seem entirely inappropriate. And you have to
realize, that ATC personnel work at odd hours 24 hours a day.

Given the drastic recent evolution in corporate dress codes (just
recall how Wilbur and Oval were attired in that photograph of their
first powered flight), probably fostered by the laissez-faire dot-com
era of the '90s, and the fact that ATC employees apparently had a
history of absence of dress code, I don't see the employees' stand as
unreasonable.

However, it would seem more appropriate for highly skilled
professionals charged with the safety of thousands of airline
passengers' to have a personal desire to elevate their status in the
eyes of the public by dressing in a style of formality commensurate
with magnitude of their responsibility.