Thermal right, land left

In article ,
ADP wrote:
Well Mark,

After defending the honor of Airline Pilots,
I suppose that I could be forgiven the fact that
I agree with your last two paragraphs, to wit:

What does this have to do with RAS? Plenty. I suggest
pilots who are very experienced can benefit from practicing
things that are VERY "rare." As you get more experienced, these
things become even rarer (because skill and judgement make them so.)
Slack rope, the need for takeoff abort, unexpected need for
release, full stalls, failed instruments, etc. are rare because
super experienced pilot skills are so good one avoids these
things well.

I suggest that if one spends enough time in the safe regime, the
rare events happen extremely rarely, but when they do, they
are more unexpected, more mentally jarring, and more potentially
devastating. The mental disbelief of an experienced pilot can be
more profound and more crippling than for a novice. I myself
have had a delayed reaction to a recovery because of disbelief
and had to go back to training from many years past to recover.
And I've seen this while flying with other experienced pilots...

It's like saying puppy dogs are cute. Of course you are mostly right
but it does not entirely explain why experienced pilots do dumb things.

I can not, for the life of me, understand how a pilot gets into
an inadvertant spin close to the ground. I have seen it and read
about it, but I don't understand it.

The accident reports from the last ten years for gliders indicate
two ridge soaring stall/spins, two airframe failures during stall/spin
or recovery, and 1 C.G. stall spin for commercial pilots.

Out of 24 fatal accidents.

This seems quite different from the accidents of low time pilots
(which include some classic base to final accidents).


To take your thesis to its logical extent, I suppose I am an accident just
waiting to happen, as are we all. With over 15,000 hours of accident
free flying, I guess it's time to hang it up. (He says, modestly.)

If you've been accident free for a long time, you may have developed
self-discipline which results in self-training which helps you to
continuously be "recent" in your experiences. Maybe you
fly a variety of aircraft which helps you to avoid repetitive
complacency. Maybe you occasionally stop your prop for an air
restart in a new aircraft. Maybe you spin a new glider
once in a while to keep yourself sharp.

If you do, this may be what is keeping you from having
an accident. Hours are not the only metric. "Just because
a man eats every day doesn't make him a gourmet." I liked that quote
Hours just show that the overall attitude of the pilot
hasn't killed him yet...


sO WHAT'S THE POINT? hOW CAN WE ALL BENEFIT FROM THESE OBSERVATIONS?

Practice those rare occurances, and try to avoid the arrogant
assumptions that "it can't happen to me." Self-discipline and
the awareness of the little mistakes is really valuable in
avoiding the big mistakes. Finally, study the accident reports
and practice things that will ensure you don't repeat the
mistakes of OTHERS either. I've had a heart-wrenching
session where I said "that failed spin recovery with the
excess speed and outboard wing sections failing could have happened because
of a wind-up ASI. Maybe they didn't know their airspeed." Then
whenever I see that kind of ASI, I mentally note this is a
potential problem.

Most of us are probably engineers, so we have critical,
analytical minds anyway. Make the "what if's" FUN.

Above all, for even the little mistakes, don't be
"that guy" who always blames it on somebody/something else...
fess' up and make it a learning experience for everyone...

--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Yes.

Allan

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:40513bc3@darkstar...
In article ,

Above all, for even the little mistakes, don't be
"that guy" who always blames it on somebody/something else...
fess' up and make it a learning experience for everyone...

--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Mark,

you make a good point regarding learning from others' mistakes. I once
heard Paddy Welles give an interesting talk on Denial and its effects,
some expected, some less so. It boiled down to a warning... if you
look at someone else's misfortune and cannot see his fate befalling
you, then you've learned nothing, blinded by denial. Problem is,
denial is an important part of maintaining a competitive edge,
justifying risk taking. Finding the balance is important. Knowing when
to stop being a hero even moreso.

Many years ago a friend was crippled after a low release from tow
leading to a spin. The cause of the accident was distraction... a bee
had joined him in the cockpit. He was allergic to their stings. I
thought about that accident a long time. Not about bees, but about
other things that might happen in the cockpit, so unusual or
frightening that they might divert my attention from flying -- and
cost me my life as a result.

I came up with a handful of possibilities -- fire, snake, canopy loss,
control loss, harness failure, cramp... point is, I decided to develop
a process for dealing with such emergencies. When I had my bee
encounter (2 of them woke up on final glide -- one had crawled up my
pants leg for warmth, the other nestled between my shirt back and
waistband) I got past the initial shudder, slowed down a little, then
attended to isolating the one up my pants leg. The other I had no
control over. After landing, with help from the ground crew, we set
both of them free, none of the three of us any the worse for wear.
Point is, I'd thought this through. Not how I was going to deal with
the bees, but how I would deal with my reaction to them.

snip
I can not, for the life of me, understand how a pilot gets into
an inadvertant spin close to the ground. I have seen it and read
about it, but I don't understand it.
snip

To become that pilot try a downwind turn at about 200 feet while
landing in a feild that has livestock/fences or other distractions.

The point is nearly every pilot that inadvertantly spun it in close to
the ground was not thinking I am about to spin. Instead they were
thinking things more like:

Am I going to make past that fence?
Am I going to clear those trees?
Will I get stopped before the end of the field?
Is that cow going to dart in front of me?
How am I going to get the glider out of the field?
How am I going to contact my crew?
Where is that other glider?
Did I put my beer in the cooler?

Meanwhile back in the cockpit the ASI is hovering over the bottom of
the white(green) arc. The glider looks like it has plenty of airspeed
because the ground looks like it is screaming past it due to it being
so close and also because it is going downwind.

Then: the nose drops and or a wing drops. Ask any pilot what control
input makes the nose go up and what makes a wing go up. 99.9% will say
pulling back on the stick and moving the stick away from the dropping
wing. What do you think the most likely response for a pilot that is
thinking "am I going to clear those trees" is when the wing and nose
drop? Give yourself a star if you said pull back on the stick and put
in opposite aileron. The only pilot that would push forward on the
stick is the one that recongnized this situation as a stall. If you
are to distracted to recognize a stall when you think everything is
just fine you will react entirely incorrectly and probably hit the
ground wondering what broke on the glider because you have the stick
all the way back and full aileron that nose is still dropping and
wings are not leveling.

I have watched students (who knew better) do this at altitude hundreds
of times. I have been there done that myself once is a 1-26
(fortunatly) on an off feild landing. As the 1-26 began to shudder I
glanced at the airspeed and pushed the nose down. Lowering the nose
very hard to do when it looks like you are going fast and the ground
is close. Very simlar feeling to the "leans" (feeling like your
turning when the instruments say your not) when instrument flying.

IMO. most stall spin accidents at low level are caused by the illusion
of speed when you are close to the ground. Possibly illusions of
attitude caused by lack of a distant horizon. And most importantly by
the pilot not recognizing they are in a potentional stall spin
situation due to these factors, experience level (high or low), and
workload.

Brian Case
CFIIG/ASEL

Mark James Boyd wrote:
...
I suggest that if one spends enough time in the safe regime, the
rare events happen extremely rarely, but when they do, they
are more unexpected, more mentally jarring, and more potentially
devastating. The mental disbelief of an experienced pilot can be
more profound and more crippling than for a novice. I myself
have had a delayed reaction to a recovery because of disbelief
and had to go back to training from many years past to recover.
And I've seen this while flying with other experienced pilots...
...

I found how to avoid that: become instructor, so you have to
routinely demonstrate the proper reaction :-)

"Brian Case" wrote in message
om...
snip
I can not, for the life of me, understand how a pilot gets into
an inadvertant spin close to the ground. I have seen it and read
about it, but I don't understand it.
snip

To become that pilot try a downwind turn at about 200 feet while
landing in a feild that has livestock/fences or other distractions.

The point is nearly every pilot that inadvertantly spun it in close to
the ground was not thinking I am about to spin. Instead they were
thinking things more like:

Am I going to make past that fence?
Am I going to clear those trees?
Will I get stopped before the end of the field?
Is that cow going to dart in front of me?
How am I going to get the glider out of the field?
How am I going to contact my crew?
Where is that other glider?
Did I put my beer in the cooler?

Meanwhile back in the cockpit the ASI is hovering over the bottom of
the white(green) arc. The glider looks like it has plenty of airspeed
because the ground looks like it is screaming past it due to it being
so close and also because it is going downwind.

Then: the nose drops and or a wing drops. Ask any pilot what control
input makes the nose go up and what makes a wing go up. 99.9% will say
pulling back on the stick and moving the stick away from the dropping
wing. What do you think the most likely response for a pilot that is
thinking "am I going to clear those trees" is when the wing and nose
drop? Give yourself a star if you said pull back on the stick and put
in opposite aileron. The only pilot that would push forward on the
stick is the one that recongnized this situation as a stall. If you
are to distracted to recognize a stall when you think everything is
just fine you will react entirely incorrectly and probably hit the
ground wondering what broke on the glider because you have the stick
all the way back and full aileron that nose is still dropping and
wings are not leveling.

I have watched students (who knew better) do this at altitude hundreds
of times. I have been there done that myself once is a 1-26
(fortunatly) on an off feild landing. As the 1-26 began to shudder I
glanced at the airspeed and pushed the nose down. Lowering the nose
very hard to do when it looks like you are going fast and the ground
is close. Very simlar feeling to the "leans" (feeling like your
turning when the instruments say your not) when instrument flying.

IMO. most stall spin accidents at low level are caused by the illusion
of speed when you are close to the ground. Possibly illusions of
attitude caused by lack of a distant horizon. And most importantly by
the pilot not recognizing they are in a potentional stall spin
situation due to these factors, experience level (high or low), and
workload.

Brian Case
CFIIG/ASEL

Brian makes a good case about illusions and distractions. I have always
asked my students to make an evaluation of how difficult an impending
landing is likely to be before entering the pattern.

Then:
1. Consciously set all else aside and concentrate on flying a perfect
pattern and landing.
2. Realize that if he screws it up badly enough, he will be the lead story
on the evening news.
3. Increase instrument scan rate while consciously avoiding instrument
fixation.
4. Continue to evaluate the sight picture of the approach and the
surrounding airspace.
5, Make small corrections early rather than big corrections late.

In short, notch up alertness and really THINK about what is happening - RISE
TO THE OCCASION.

Practicing a bunch of skidding turn spin entries at safe altitude helps too.
The first few of these seem very quick and sneaky (If you use a decent
trainer) but once a student gets used to the sensations it seems like the
glider is providing HUGE indications that it doesn't like how it is being
flown.

I also agree with ADP that it's hard to comprehend how pilots spin a glider
on a turn to final. Landing a glider is incredibly easy compared to more
complicated aircraft. You really have only one instrument to monitor - the
airspeed. A glider pilot has fantastic visibility from the cockpit,
extraordinarily powerful controls to aid him in making a precise landing and
a very slow approach speed so he shouldn't feel rushed.

Yet, it DOES happen. In my mind, it can only speak to VERY poor flying
skills employed at the critical moment. We CAN do better.

Compare the leisurely approach and landing of a glider on a sunny afternoon
to the following from a Navy pilot friend of mine.

Location: Gulf of Alaska.
Time: 0300 local
Weather: One half mile and 200 feet in driving rain. Sea state 4. Sea temp
0C.
Aircraft: E2 Hawkeye - one turning and one burning - scattered system
failures. Six SOB.
Carrier: Pitching deck. Angle deck clear but disabled aircraft forward.
Options - none.

She hooked the number three wire.

Bill Daniels

In article ,
Bill Daniels wrote:

"Brian Case" wrote in message
. com...
snip
I can not, for the life of me, understand how a pilot gets into
an inadvertant spin close to the ground. I have seen it and read
about it, but I don't understand it.
snip

The point is nearly every pilot that inadvertantly spun it in close to
the ground was not thinking I am about to spin. Instead they were
thinking things more like:

Where's the stall warning horn? I'm still utterly baffled why there
isn't a stall warning device on each wingtip? Is this really that
much extra drag? Is it more drag than that caused by having
to make a wing design that buffets before a full stall?

Sure sure, "note required by type certification."
Just because we CAN make gliders without stall warning devices,
SHOULD we?

In the Nimbus 4DM and the 60 degree bank stall accidents I read, I wonder
if this would have helped...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

My response to this is, "don't do that". Do not be distracted from your
primary goal of getting on the ground safely.
Kill the cow, screw the crops, go between the trees, the hell with the
pattern ---- do not stall and you will walk away.

Allan

"Brian Case" wrote in message
om...
snip
I can not, for the life of me, understand how a pilot gets into
an inadvertant spin close to the ground. I have seen it and read
about it, but I don't understand it.
snip

To become that pilot try a downwind turn at about 200 feet while
landing in a feild that has livestock/fences or other distractions.

The point is nearly every pilot that inadvertantly spun it in close to
the ground was not thinking I am about to spin. Instead they were
thinking things more like:

Am I going to make past that fence?
Am I going to clear those trees?
Will I get stopped before the end of the field?
Is that cow going to dart in front of me?
How am I going to get the glider out of the field?
How am I going to contact my crew?
Where is that other glider?
Did I put my beer in the cooler?

....Snip....

Mark James Boyd wrote:

The point is nearly every pilot that inadvertantly spun it in close to
the ground was not thinking I am about to spin. Instead they were
thinking things more like:


Where's the stall warning horn? I'm still utterly baffled why there
isn't a stall warning device on each wingtip? Is this really that
much extra drag? Is it more drag than that caused by having
to make a wing design that buffets before a full stall?

It might be useful to look at small airplane accidents, since they DO
have stall warning horns. I'm under the impression that stall/spin
accidents are a big cause of fatal accidents also. Do you have any numbers?
--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

On 3/12/04 7:38 AM, in article
, "Chris OCallaghan"
wrote:

Point is, I'd thought this through. Not how I was going to deal with
the bees, but how I would deal with my reaction to them.

A valuable reminder, Chris -- so much better than reading a post from
someone theorizing about something he hasn¹t actually done.

The pilot is always the biggest challenge in aviation.



Jack
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