Thermal right, land left

On 3/12/04 2:05 PM, in article 40521816$1@darkstar, "Mark James Boyd"
wrote:

Where's the stall warning horn?

On the Cessna, where it belongs. Don't even think about putting one in a
sailplane.

Soaring ought to be about flying the aircraft, not just monitoring the
government-mandated distractions. The thing would either be activated during
most thermaling, or have such a close tolerance as to give no useful warning
to those who would most need it -- and they are expensive. Would you
recommend flashing lights on the panel, a speaker tone to compete with the
vario, or both? Perhaps you would also like to incorporate a stick-shaker?


Jack
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At 20:54 12 March 2004, Adp wrote:
My response to this is, 'don't do that'. Do not be
distracted from your
primary goal of getting on the ground safely.
Kill the cow, screw the crops, go between the trees,
the hell with the
pattern ---- do not stall and you will walk away.

Allan


I agree, except for one thing; if you kill the cow,the
cow will also kill you. I hit a deer at night with
a Buick; no glider would have survived it.

It might be useful to look at small airplane accidents, since they DO
have stall warning horns. I'm under the impression that stall/spin
accidents are a big cause of fatal accidents also. Do you have any numbers?

I used to own and fly a Cessna 340. That 340 was a great airplane but I
noticed in very rough conditions only in landing configuration I could hear the
stall warning horn. I think it was caused by the stall warning tab being
lifted by the action of a gust or the motion of the airplane to the gust. The
point being, a horn may wake you up, but there are better ways of determining
if you are in a stall. The first time I heard this horn I was landing at
Bishop, CA on a very turbulent day. My reaction was to look at the airspeed
then to do nothing. It got my attention but I was not stalled and it was just
a distraction. Fly the damn airplane for the given conditions. Yes, sometimes
that means a left turn or a right turn and at different speeds. If you cannot
do that please do everyone a favor and get more training until you are
comfortable in either direction.

On 12 Mar 2004 12:05:42 -0800, (Mark James Boyd)
wrote:


Where's the stall warning horn? I'm still utterly baffled why there
isn't a stall warning device on each wingtip? Is this really that
much extra drag? Is it more drag than that caused by having
to make a wing design that buffets before a full stall?

There are gliders that are equipped with stall audio warnings. Most of
these stall warnings have been switched off permanently because they
were yelling all the time while thermalling.

Bye
Andreas

Andreas Maurer wrote:
On 12 Mar 2004 12:05:42 -0800, (Mark James Boyd)
wrote:



Where's the stall warning horn? I'm still utterly baffled why there
isn't a stall warning device on each wingtip? Is this really that
much extra drag? Is it more drag than that caused by having
to make a wing design that buffets before a full stall?


There are gliders that are equipped with stall audio warnings. Most of
these stall warnings have been switched off permanently because they
were yelling all the time while thermalling.

THe difficulty is getting a true stall warning, rather than an airpeed
alert (even if it is adjusted to G loading). Other difficulties with the
type Andreas mentions is it doesn't know when the spoilers are out, the
flap position, or the bugs on the leading edge.

--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

At 23:00 12 March 2004, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On 12 Mar 2004 12:05:42 -0800,
(Mark James Boyd)
wrote:


Where's the stall warning horn? I'm still utterly
baffled why there
isn't a stall warning device on each wingtip? Is this
really that
much extra drag? Is it more drag than that caused
by having
to make a wing design that buffets before a full stall?

There are gliders that are equipped with stall audio
warnings. Most of
these stall warnings have been switched off permanently
because they
were yelling all the time while thermalling.

Bye
Andreas

In sailplanes the stall warning instrument is a little
bit of grey matter fitted just behind the pilots eyes
and between his ears

Byeeeeeeeee

Dave

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:20:09 -0800, Eric Greenwell
wrote:


THe difficulty is getting a true stall warning, rather than an airpeed
alert (even if it is adjusted to G loading). Other difficulties with the
type Andreas mentions is it doesn't know when the spoilers are out, the
flap position, or the bugs on the leading edge.

Airspeed alert is one problem, but even if you get an AoA alert you'll
be close to stall AoA very often if you are circling in a gusty
thermal.
And something that beeps all the time during a flight will not be
taken seriously anymore after a short time.

Bye
Andreas

Andreas Maurer wrote:

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:20:09 -0800, Eric Greenwell
wrote
THe difficulty is getting a true stall warning, rather than an airpeed
alert (even if it is adjusted to G loading). Other difficulties with the
type Andreas mentions is it doesn't know when the spoilers are out, the
flap position, or the bugs on the leading edge.


Airspeed alert is one problem, but even if you get an AoA alert you'll
be close to stall AoA very often if you are circling in a gusty
thermal.
And something that beeps all the time during a flight will not be
taken seriously anymore after a short time.

This could actually be an asset to the pilot: if the warning is heard
often, it probably means the pilot is circling too slowly for best
performance and should speed up. An airfoil that is stalling, even
momentarily, is producing too much drag.

For example, the newer airfoils, like the one on my ASH 26 E, have a
larger separation between stall speed and best circling speed than the
earlier airfoil designs. You can fly controllably slower than you should
for best climb performance. This situation makes it easier to design a
suitable AoA warning device than on the earlier airfoils.

--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Come on guys........

Wheel down ....stall warning on.

Wheel up......Stall warning off.

Simple.

Ian

Moral?

Don't land gliders in fields at night!

Ian

"Nyal Williams" wrote in message
...
At 20:54 12 March 2004, Adp wrote:
My response to this is, 'don't do that'. Do not be
distracted from your
primary goal of getting on the ground safely.
Kill the cow, screw the crops, go between the trees,
the hell with the
pattern ---- do not stall and you will walk away.

Allan


I agree, except for one thing; if you kill the cow,the
cow will also kill you. I hit a deer at night with
a Buick; no glider would have survived it.