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#61
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I've done more than my share of popping up over the years (ATC seems easier
to get along with west of the Mississippi) and I can't remember ever being vectored in Class E airspace. Not that my memory is perfect, but it seems to me that if it was a regular occurence I would remember it. Bob Gardner wrote in message ... : Why don't more people use flight following? The biggest reason I've heard (and feel often enough) is that you're likely to get "vectored" even if clear of controlled airspace. I've got a friend with a turbo Arrow that flies along VFR without flight following right over the top of Class C and Class B at 10500 or 11500. If you were to call up approach while doing, that, seems like 9 times out of 10 they'll vector you 10-20 miles out of the way. Similarly if you're skirting under an airspace... likely to get vectored further out. It's unfortunate, since it discourages people who enjoy the freedom of VFR from getting additional safety of traffic advisories and being "in the system." -Cory -- ************************************************** *********************** * Cory Papenfuss * * Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student * * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * ************************************************** *********************** |
#62
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Agreed. Getting thru/around/over Class B is one reason that VFR makes
more sense than VFR when VMC but I want radar advisories when I'm doing that. I normally ask "Maule 44Foxtrot requests radar advisories" rather than "Flight Following". Don't know if that makes any difference but If I decide to overfly or underfly a Class B, I'm not asking for routing, I'm asking for traffic advisories. And while I'll welcome zigs and zags, I'm probably going to follow my strategy and not accept route or altitude deviations 'suggested' by ATC. The only hard stop is "remain clear". In practice, I'm typically IFR in VMC and not happy with my options. When I cancel, it's pretty clear that I'm pursuing a different route and rarely are others suggested. Dave Butler wrote: Roy Smith wrote: The biggest reason I've heard (and feel often enough) is that you're likely to get "vectored" even if clear of controlled airspace. I've got a friend with a turbo Arrow that flies along VFR without flight following right over the top of Class C and Class B at 10500 or 11500. If you were to call up approach while doing, that, seems like 9 times out of 10 they'll vector you 10-20 miles out of the way. Similarly if you're skirting under an airspace... likely to get vectored further out. There's two sides to this. One is that if you're VFR in Class E airspace, they really don't have any authority to vector you (I'm sure somebody will come up with some exception). Sometimes controllers do try to do so anyway, but if you really don't want to comply, you can just say "cancel flight following, request frequency change" and go on your fat, dumb, and happy way. The other is that if you're doing something like skirting the top of a Class B by 500 feet and the controller suggests a heading or route to you, it might just be in both of your best interests to go along with it. You scratch his back and he'll scratch yours. There's a lot of heavy metal climbing out the top of a Class B. I don't want to be the hood ornament on a 747, nor do I want to discover what the wake turbulence of one feels like. Yes. I've gone over the top of Chicago twice on the way to OSH. You know you can't get an IFR routing anywhere near there, so I crossed the CBAS at 10500 VFR. I was happy to have advisories as the aluminum concentration was high. The controller seemed to be glad I was talking and squawking, too. He did give me a couple of zigzags, but that's better than going way out over Lake Michigan or 50 miles to the west. |
#63
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"Cleared present position direct...." has been my experience with popping
up. Of course, I was at an altitude where radar could see me. In my experience, being on an airway offers no special advantage. Bob Gardner "Brenor Brophy" wrote in message ... Lots of good answers, especially regarding how easy it is to get a pop-up if you already have flight following. I'll just add one more item - fly a route you could fly IFR with the equipment you've got. For example, while my handheld GPS can take me direct anywhere VFR - I'm screwed if I need an IFR pop-up and I'm not on an airway in my VOR only equiped plane (/U). So I pretty much always follow airways - just on the off chance I need to "convert" my flight following to an IFR clearance. -Brenor |
#64
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Maule Driver wrote:
I normally ask "Maule 44Foxtrot requests radar advisories" rather than "Flight Following". There is absolutely no difference between the two. They are just two different names for exactly the same service. |
#65
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"OtisWinslow" wrote in message ... A VFR flight plan is a FSS thing so they can find the bodies if you don't show up. Doesn't go to ATC. Correct, but if you file an IFR fight plan through DUATS with "VFR" as the requested altitude it WILL go to ATC. |
#66
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net... Correct, but if you file an IFR fight plan through DUATS with "VFR" as the requested altitude it WILL go to ATC. Here's what he said and what I reply to: "pre-file your VFR flight plan with DUATS so ATC already has a strip on you at initial call-up, just like with IFR." If you file an IFR flight plan with a VFR altitude they'll assume you want FF. I've done that by mistake and when I called for a clearance they made a comment about FF. |
#67
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"OtisWinslow" wrote in message m... Here's what he said and what I reply to: "pre-file your VFR flight plan with DUATS so ATC already has a strip on you at initial call-up, just like with IFR." Yeah, and here's what he said earlier in the thread and what I initially replied to: "I've been told you can play tricks with DUAT, filing an IFR flight plan and putting 'VFR' in the remarks section, but you shouldn't have to resort to subterfuge like that for what seems like such a simple and logical thing." We're talking about filing an IFR flight plan through DUATS with "VFR" as the requested altitude for the purpose of generating strips for flight following, not about filing a VFR flight plan for search and rescue purposes. If you file an IFR flight plan with a VFR altitude they'll assume you want FF. Exactly. |
#68
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"Maule Driver" wrote in message .. . ....snip... I normally ask "Maule 44Foxtrot requests radar advisories" rather than "Flight Following". Don't know if that makes any difference ....snip... IIRC, "flight following" is an informal way of saying "radar services" (i.e., the two are synonymous). |
#69
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ATC is pretty easy to get along with down in the SE US too. Lack of
congestion is the key I'm guessing. The only Class E vectoring I can remember ever getting was related to bypassing Class B & C. Specifically attempts to vector you even if high or low enough to avoid the B/C. The big 'depend' is individual facilities' practices with regard to transitions thru their airspace. Charlotte used to routinely send you around. Now they seemed to have worked out thru transitions. Greensboro treats their Class C like sacred air and won't even let you nip the corners when transitioning. Raleigh almost always accomodates thru transitons. Heck, Washington DC used to be pretty flexible and accomodating before 9/11 (Maule, give me 10 degrees left to miss Bill's house). Stuff varies. Bob Gardner wrote: I've done more than my share of popping up over the years (ATC seems easier to get along with west of the Mississippi) and I can't remember ever being vectored in Class E airspace. Not that my memory is perfect, but it seems to me that if it was a regular occurence I would remember it. Bob Gardner wrote in message ... : Why don't more people use flight following? The biggest reason I've heard (and feel often enough) is that you're likely to get "vectored" even if clear of controlled airspace. I've got a friend with a turbo Arrow that flies along VFR without flight following right over the top of Class C and Class B at 10500 or 11500. If you were to call up approach while doing, that, seems like 9 times out of 10 they'll vector you 10-20 miles out of the way. Similarly if you're skirting under an airspace... likely to get vectored further out. It's unfortunate, since it discourages people who enjoy the freedom of VFR from getting additional safety of traffic advisories and being "in the system." -Cory -- ************************************************ ************************* * Cory Papenfuss * * Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student * * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * ************************************************ ************************* |
#70
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"Dave Butler" wrote in message news:1117123248.79333@sj-nntpcache-5... Yes. I've gone over the top of Chicago twice on the way to OSH. You know you can't get an IFR routing anywhere near there, so I crossed the CBAS at 10500 VFR. I was happy to have advisories as the aluminum concentration was high. The controller seemed to be glad I was talking and squawking, too. He did give me a couple of zigzags, but that's better than going way out over Lake Michigan or 50 miles to the west. Another question then: I am planning to fly from PVD Providence RI to Madison MSN on 24/25th July. The backend on the route was to be MKG (Muskegon), BAE (Badger) and MSN. Is it likely then that I will not get cleared IFR through to MSN and if wanted to follow that route would be best to cancel IFR and go VFR weather permitting even getting a pop up clearance at MSN to descend through cloud? |
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