"Airplane Drivers" and "Self Centered Idiots"

Thanks to AVweb for this column. The pilot makes the point better than
I.


http://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/193321-1.html

With this attitude towards fellow aviators, imagine how they feel about
noise abatement procedures, which are purely voluntary!!!

Excellent article, which will go into the file....

Skylune wrote:
Thanks to AVweb for this column.

No, thank you for sharing that link, and for your obvious concerns about
aviation safety. Even though you're not a member of the community of pilots
and probably never will be, I'm sure I speak for the group when I express my
gratitude for your ongoing criticism of everything related to aviation --
keeps us on our toes!

With this attitude towards fellow aviators...

Is the writer being a little harsh? You bet! And that's okay, because he's
an experienced pilot whose views are to be respected and learned from. But
please, don't feel bad that no one listens to you. I promise, the next time
the Embittered Aviation Rejects hold *their* convention, we'll ask you for
your complete report.

Tom Young

On 10 Oct 2006 05:23:16 -0700, "Skylune" wrote:

Thanks to AVweb for this column. The pilot makes the point better than
I.

http://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/193321-1.html

With this attitude towards fellow aviators, imagine how they feel about
noise abatement procedures, which are purely voluntary!!!

Excellent article, which will go into the file....


You did note, of course, that Durden emphasized how few such bozos there
are, and that it would not be difficult to weed them out.





randall g =%^) PPASEL+Night 1974 Cardinal RG
http://www.telemark.net/randallg
Lots of aerial photographs of British Columbia at:
http://www.telemark.net/randallg/photos.htm
Vancouver's famous Kat Kam: http://www.katkam.ca

("DeLoon DeLoon" pasted an interesting link)

http://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/193321-1.html
"The controllers were frustrated, upset and angry about individual pilot
behavior and determined to press for a violation action against the pilot.
This year there were enough problems that the FAA stepped away from its
historic hands-off approach to pilot transgressions. It used to be "no harm,
no foul." This year the frequency of egregious behavior by airplane drivers
arriving at AirVenture caused the FAA to step in and start initiating
violation actions.


Was the FAA in charge that first Sunday morning, from 9am - noon? Whoever
was responsible for that Sunday morning "Cone of Silence" mess needs a good
talking to ...so it doesn't happen again!

Learn "why" it happened. Don't simply create a regulation, or procedure, to
manage the situation after it's been created ...and could have been avoided
in the first place.

From talking to pilots who flew to Oshkosh this year: More separation is
needed, based on low speed capabilities of different planes.

(Pick one area/group/altitude you're COMFORTABLE flying with: Then stick to
that zone's speed)

Ultralights...
50 mph zone
75 mph zone
100 mph zone
125 mph zone
150 mph zone
IFR arrivals....

The NOTAM rebate landing fee is an interesting idea. Landing fee of $50 -
waived if you have an electronic or paper version of the current NOTAM. It
would be a nightmare to administer, however.

Can't speak to the issues on the ground. My few interactions with OSH Flight
Ops volunteers have been 100% positive. They are about the nicest (most
helpful) people to deal with at OSH ...IMHO.

Of course, my dealings with OSH pilots has been 100% positive, too.

Overall, I didn't think it was one of Rick Durden's better efforts - even
though I appreciate what he's trying to say. The last paragraph, "Stop
Before They Add More Restrictions," was good.


Montblack

Thanks to AVweb for this column. The pilot makes the point better than I.

http://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/193321-1.html

The author, Rick Durden, is a regular here, and a straight shooter.
What he says in that article is 100% on the money.

Those of us who fly into Oshkosh every year know precisely what he's
talking about, and it is definitely time for EAA and the FAA to step up
enforcement action against pilots who arrogantly ignore the NOTAM.
(NOTAM = NOTice to AirMen, outlining the arrival/departure
procedures.) I saw and heard things this year that I've NEVER seen or
heard before, and we don't want Oshkosh to become endangered because of
the actions of a few idiots.

That said, the FAA itself was largely to blame for much of the
confusion over Rush and Green Lakes this year. (I know -- I was
there.) If the controllers had only said "Guys, there's been an
accident on the field, and we don't know how long the hold is going to
be." -- half the planes holding would have diverted to other airports
to wait it out.

They chose, instead, to keep saying "We're doing the best we can, and
we'll get you in as soon as possible." This lack of information gave
everyone holding the false hope that the hold would end soon, and the
swarm around the lakes just kept getting bigger, and bigger, and
bigger. It was a real mess, which -- thankfully -- all worked out in
the end.

And that, Skylune, is the point you are missing, as always. Oshkosh is
well run, and continues to have a very good safety record, despite
these few transgressions. Pilots policing themselves (with peer
pressure and harsh articles like Rick's) will ultimately have the
desired effect, and will go a long ways toward stopping the "Morons to
Oshkosh".
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

randall g wrote:
On 10 Oct 2006 05:23:16 -0700, "Skylune" wrote:

Thanks to AVweb for this column. The pilot makes the point better than
I.

http://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/193321-1.html

With this attitude towards fellow aviators, imagine how they feel about
noise abatement procedures, which are purely voluntary!!!

Excellent article, which will go into the file....


You did note, of course, that Durden emphasized how few such bozos there
are, and that it would not be difficult to weed them out.





randall g =%^) PPASEL+Night 1974 Cardinal RG
http://www.telemark.net/randallg
Lots of aerial photographs of British Columbia at:
http://www.telemark.net/randallg/photos.htm
Vancouver's famous Kat Kam: http://www.katkam.ca


Yes, and I also agree with his comment about FAA enforcement: "no harm
no foul."

Jay Honeck wrote:
Thanks to AVweb for this column. The pilot makes the point better than I.

http://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/193321-1.html

The author, Rick Durden, is a regular here, and a straight shooter.
What he says in that article is 100% on the money.

Those of us who fly into Oshkosh every year know precisely what he's
talking about, and it is definitely time for EAA and the FAA to step up
enforcement action against pilots who arrogantly ignore the NOTAM.
(NOTAM = NOTice to AirMen, outlining the arrival/departure
procedures.) I saw and heard things this year that I've NEVER seen or
heard before, and we don't want Oshkosh to become endangered because of
the actions of a few idiots.

That said, the FAA itself was largely to blame for much of the
confusion over Rush and Green Lakes this year. (I know -- I was
there.) If the controllers had only said "Guys, there's been an
accident on the field, and we don't know how long the hold is going to
be." -- half the planes holding would have diverted to other airports
to wait it out.

They chose, instead, to keep saying "We're doing the best we can, and
we'll get you in as soon as possible." This lack of information gave
everyone holding the false hope that the hold would end soon, and the
swarm around the lakes just kept getting bigger, and bigger, and
bigger. It was a real mess, which -- thankfully -- all worked out in
the end.

And that, Skylune, is the point you are missing, as always. Oshkosh is
well run, and continues to have a very good safety record, despite
these few transgressions. Pilots policing themselves (with peer
pressure and harsh articles like Rick's) will ultimately have the
desired effect, and will go a long ways toward stopping the "Morons to
Oshkosh".
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

His comments about stupid pilot tricks matches my experience perfectly.
That, plus the BS the flight school put on us about how convenient VFR
GA was for transportation, plus minimimizing the fact that you need to
fly regularly to be safe, way beyond what the FAA minimums require to
remain current, are what caused me to quit. Fortunately, the crooks at
the flight school (a national chain) only got a few thousand of my hard
earned cash before I (and a few other students) realized we were being
played.... It still ticks me off though.

I now have the time to train again, and actually thought about it for a
while, but there is no benefit to VFR GA in the Northeast, unless you
need a hobby.

I now have the time to train again, and actually thought about it for a
while, but there is no benefit to VFR GA in the Northeast, unless you
need a hobby.

Well, it's a damned good hobby. And we've used it for tranportation --
all VFR -- for almost 12 years now.

And I don't think you can convince me that the weather is worse in the
Northeast than it is in the Midwest. To say there is no benefit to VFR
GA is just wrong.

Bottom line: If you really want to fly, you will learn to do it. If
you really don't want to fly, you'll find every excuse imaginable not
to.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay, good VFR is common in the Midwest. Storms and front
pass by quickly, giving time for a nights rest at the Inn or
just a good meal. But in the NE, MVFR and IFR are more
common, leading to longer delays since the mountains and
ocean tend to hold water vapor, dirt and pollution around
longer.
If you fly a J3 at 80 mph, 1 sm gives time to see and avoid
towers and such, if you fly at a higher speed, like 120 mph
you only have 30 seconds to see and avoid. If you fly at
180 mph (Bonanza class) you have 20 seconds to see the tower
and guy wires, You take evasive action and hope there isn't
another tower in that direction.

VFR is OK, but if you are needing to travel on a schedule,
IFR is essential anytime the weather is MVFR and you can't
see the ridges or the towers.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
| I now have the time to train again, and actually thought
about it for a
| while, but there is no benefit to VFR GA in the
Northeast, unless you
| need a hobby.
|
| Well, it's a damned good hobby. And we've used it for
tranportation --
| all VFR -- for almost 12 years now.
|
| And I don't think you can convince me that the weather is
worse in the
| Northeast than it is in the Midwest. To say there is no
benefit to VFR
| GA is just wrong.
|
| Bottom line: If you really want to fly, you will learn to
do it. If
| you really don't want to fly, you'll find every excuse
imaginable not
| to.
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

On 10 Oct 2006 11:56:56 -0700, "Jay Honeck" wrote
in . com:

Oshkosh is
well run, and continues to have a very good safety record, despite
these few transgressions. Pilots policing themselves (with peer
pressure and harsh articles like Rick's) will ultimately have the
desired effect, and will go a long ways toward stopping the "Morons to
Oshkosh".

All should be aware, that EAA members do not typify airmen in general.
They are a 'special' group of airmen, many of whom do a lot more
building than flying throughout the year, which may account for the
issue Mr. Durden's article addresses.