Backwash Causes Lift?

On Oct 9, 8:10 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote oups.com:

On Oct 8, 3:58 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip writes:
Fair enough, but the wing is behaving in exactly the same way.

The wings of fixed-wing aircraft behave the same way whether they are
gliders or powered.

Nope. The lift/drag vectors are different as the AOA
changes. The rest of Bernoulli/Newton still apply. For helicopter and
autogyro blades, the lift/drag vectors are similar except that in
autorotation there are propeller and autorotative regions of the
rotor.

OK, take your workd for it, but I thought Autogyros had pretty much
straight blades. Alpha is obviously going to be relative to distance to the
hub if the alpha is positive, but even so, you could look at it the same as
washout if I'm following you correctly.

Bertie

They do have straight blades, but the different velocities
found at various radii make the difference in AOA at thos points. In
forward flight it gets complicated. Here's a good link:
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/...torotation.htm
Some helicopters have washout in the blades, but there are
still the rotational/advancing/retreating/radius issues to deal with.
I find it most amazing that helicopters flew successfully not all that
long after the Wright Brothers. The Germans had a workable machine in
the late '30s.
I thought helicopters were easy-to-understand machines until I had to
study them for my AME license. I like complex machinery, and these
things fit the bill. I have a little dual in an R44 and have great
respect for the folks who fly such ornery animals. Keep ya busy in a
hover.

Dan

wrote in
oups.com:

On Oct 9, 8:10 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote
oups.com:

On Oct 8, 3:58 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip writes:
Fair enough, but the wing is behaving in exactly the same way.

The wings of fixed-wing aircraft behave the same way whether they
are gliders or powered.

Nope. The lift/drag vectors are different as the AOA
changes. The rest of Bernoulli/Newton still apply. For helicopter
and autogyro blades, the lift/drag vectors are similar except that
in autorotation there are propeller and autorotative regions of the
rotor.

OK, take your workd for it, but I thought Autogyros had pretty much
straight blades. Alpha is obviously going to be relative to distance
to the hub if the alpha is positive, but even so, you could look at
it the same as washout if I'm following you correctly.

Bertie

They do have straight blades, but the different velocities
found at various radii make the difference in AOA at thos points.



OK, got it.


In
forward flight it gets complicated. Here's a good link:
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/...idDynamics/Fly
i
ngDynamics/Aerodynamics/Lowspeed/Helicopter/Autorotation/Autorotation.


I'll decline if you don't min! It's late and the things scare the crap
out of me anyway.

h
tm
Some helicopters have washout in the blades, but there are
still the rotational/advancing/retreating/radius issues to deal with.
I find it most amazing that helicopters flew successfully not all that
long after the Wright Brothers. The Germans had a workable machine in
the late '30s.

Well, the austrians were flying tethered contraption in WW1 and there
were som other dubious things, but I know about Achgelis and Flettner,
allright. Cool machines that are too often forgotten.

I thought helicopters were easy-to-understand machines until I had to
study them for my AME license. I like complex machinery, and these
things fit the bill. I have a little dual in an R44 and have great
respect for the folks who fly such ornery animals. Keep ya busy in a
hover.



Yes, I've tried em and also got OK with RC helis, but the cost of
keeping those going was nuts! The real thing doesn't interest me much.
Too expensive noisy and slow.


Bertie

John Doe wrote:
Dudley Henriques dhenriques rcn.com wrote:

Assuming you find a few who do need this tutoring, I suggest you
consider simply pointing them to the source I have mentioned as a
more bandwidth friendly way of "helping educate them".

Personally, I like Bertie's method the best; "Nope!" :-)))

Bertie is anything but bandwidth (or anything else) friendly. If you
were concerned about bandwidth and noise, Dudley Henriques, you
would correct Bertie instead of praise him.

Bertie and everyone else on Usenet can speak for themselves. I treat
people as I see them and as they treat me. Bertie and I get along on
mutual respect. He does his thing and I do mine. I don't give him a load
of crap and he returns the favor. I only wish you could do the same.
You've tried telling me more about myself since you engaged me on this
thread than Bertie has in the years I've been on Usenet.
Now you're telling me about Bertie.
You seem to know a lot about everybody. Trouble is you have it ass
backwards.
But no biggie really. You and I will never understand each other.
DH


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

John Doe wrote:
Dudley Henriques dhenriques rcn.com wrote:

Assuming you find a few who do need this tutoring, I suggest you
consider simply pointing them to the source I have mentioned as a
more bandwidth friendly way of "helping educate them".

Personally, I like Bertie's method the best; "Nope!" :-)))

Bertie is anything but bandwidth (or anything else) friendly. If you
were concerned about bandwidth and noise, Dudley Henriques, you
would correct Bertie instead of praise him.

Bertie and everyone else on Usenet can speak for themselves. I treat
people as I see them and as they treat me. Bertie and I get along on
mutual respect. He does his thing and I do mine. I don't give him a load
of crap and he returns the favor. I only wish you could do the same.
You've tried telling me more about myself since you engaged me on this
thread than Bertie has in the years I've been on Usenet.
Now you're telling me about Bertie.
You seem to know a lot about everybody. Trouble is you have it ass
backwards.
But no biggie really. You and I will never understand each other.
DH



Oh oyu really need to go over to see his little freak show in free.usenet,
Dudley.

I've seen a few fruitcakes on usenet, but this guy takes the prize.


Bertie

John Doe wrote in
t:


A nym shifting cross-posting regular troll



And quite proud of it too.





Bertie




See also:
Bertie the Bunyip bertie_the_bunyip hotmail.com
Bertie the Bunyip Sn rt.1
Jane Doe AA aa.a.a.a.a.
Mxsmanic mxsmanic gmail.com [impersonation]


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ail From: Bertie the Bunyip Sn rt.1
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting,alt.usenet.kooks,free.usenet
Subject: OK, IF Backwash Causes Lift then...
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:55:29 +0000 (UTC)
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John Doe jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote in
news:l5XOi.7706$6p6.6192 newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:

Dudley Henriques dhenriques rcn.com wrote:

Assuming you find a few who do need this tutoring, I suggest you
consider simply pointing them to the source I have mentioned as a
more bandwidth friendly way of "helping educate them".

Personally, I like Bertie's method the best; "Nope!" :-)))

Bertie is anything but bandwidth (or anything else) friendly. If you
were concerned about bandwidth and noise, Dudley Henriques, you
would correct Bertie instead of praise him.






Oooow! Aren't we kinky psycho boi?



Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

John Doe wrote:
Dudley Henriques dhenriques rcn.com wrote:

Assuming you find a few who do need this tutoring, I suggest you
consider simply pointing them to the source I have mentioned as a
more bandwidth friendly way of "helping educate them".
Personally, I like Bertie's method the best; "Nope!" :-)))
Bertie is anything but bandwidth (or anything else) friendly. If you
were concerned about bandwidth and noise, Dudley Henriques, you
would correct Bertie instead of praise him.
Bertie and everyone else on Usenet can speak for themselves. I treat
people as I see them and as they treat me. Bertie and I get along on
mutual respect. He does his thing and I do mine. I don't give him a load
of crap and he returns the favor. I only wish you could do the same.
You've tried telling me more about myself since you engaged me on this
thread than Bertie has in the years I've been on Usenet.
Now you're telling me about Bertie.
You seem to know a lot about everybody. Trouble is you have it ass
backwards.
But no biggie really. You and I will never understand each other.
DH



Oh oyu really need to go over to see his little freak show in free.usenet,
Dudley.

I've seen a few fruitcakes on usenet, but this guy takes the prize.


Bertie

I have to admit, these guys are entertaining if little else :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

John Doe wrote:
Dudley Henriques dhenriques rcn.com wrote:

Assuming you find a few who do need this tutoring, I suggest you
consider simply pointing them to the source I have mentioned as a
more bandwidth friendly way of "helping educate them".
Personally, I like Bertie's method the best; "Nope!" :-)))
Bertie is anything but bandwidth (or anything else) friendly. If
you were concerned about bandwidth and noise, Dudley Henriques, you
would correct Bertie instead of praise him.
Bertie and everyone else on Usenet can speak for themselves. I treat
people as I see them and as they treat me. Bertie and I get along on
mutual respect. He does his thing and I do mine. I don't give him a
load of crap and he returns the favor. I only wish you could do the
same. You've tried telling me more about myself since you engaged me
on this thread than Bertie has in the years I've been on Usenet.
Now you're telling me about Bertie.
You seem to know a lot about everybody. Trouble is you have it ass
backwards.
But no biggie really. You and I will never understand each other.
DH



Oh oyu really need to go over to see his little freak show in
free.usenet, Dudley.

I've seen a few fruitcakes on usenet, but this guy takes the prize.


Bertie

I have to admit, these guys are entertaining if little else :-))


It's what I live for.

Bertie

Dudley Henriques dhenriques rcn.com wrote:

John Doe wrote:
Dudley Henriques dhenriques rcn.com wrote:

Assuming you find a few who do need this tutoring, I suggest you
consider simply pointing them to the source I have mentioned as
a more bandwidth friendly way of "helping educate them".

Personally, I like Bertie's method the best; "Nope!" :-)))

Bertie is anything but bandwidth (or anything else) friendly. If
you were concerned about bandwidth and noise, Dudley Henriques,
you would correct Bertie instead of praise him.

Bertie and everyone else on Usenet can speak for themselves. I
treat people as I see them and as they treat me. Bertie and I get
along on mutual respect. He does his thing and I do mine. I don't
give him a load of crap and he returns the favor. I only wish you
could do the same. You've tried telling me more about myself since
you engaged me on this thread than Bertie has in the years I've
been on Usenet. Now you're telling me about Bertie.

Ignorance is bliss?

You seem to know a lot about everybody. Trouble is you have it ass
backwards.

You were telling someone else to be more bandwidth friendly, then
you praised your friend Bertie. Recognizing the contradiction isn't
rocket science.

But no biggie really.

Right, you are so understanding, while encouraging someone else to
disrupt the groups you post to.

You and I will never understand each other.

Speak for yourself.













DH


--
Dudley Henriques


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Subject: OK, IF Backwash Causes Lift then...
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John Doe wrote in
t:

Dudley Henriques dhenriques rcn.com wrote:

John Doe wrote:
Dudley Henriques dhenriques rcn.com wrote:

Assuming you find a few who do need this tutoring, I suggest you
consider simply pointing them to the source I have mentioned as
a more bandwidth friendly way of "helping educate them".

Personally, I like Bertie's method the best; "Nope!" :-)))

Bertie is anything but bandwidth (or anything else) friendly. If
you were concerned about bandwidth and noise, Dudley Henriques,
you would correct Bertie instead of praise him.

Bertie and everyone else on Usenet can speak for themselves. I
treat people as I see them and as they treat me. Bertie and I get
along on mutual respect. He does his thing and I do mine. I don't
give him a load of crap and he returns the favor. I only wish you
could do the same. You've tried telling me more about myself since
you engaged me on this thread than Bertie has in the years I've
been on Usenet. Now you're telling me about Bertie.

Ignorance is bliss?

Yeah, right troll boi..




You seem to know a lot about everybody. Trouble is you have it ass
backwards.

You were telling someone else to be more bandwidth friendly, then
you praised your friend Bertie. Recognizing the contradiction isn't
rocket science.

But no biggie really.

Right, you are so understanding, while encouraging someone else to
disrupt the groups you post to.

You and I will never understand each other.

Speak for yourself.


Bwawhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahwha!
God I love usenet.



Bertie












DH


--
Dudley Henriques


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John Doe wrote:
Dudley Henriques dhenriques rcn.com wrote:

John Doe wrote:
Dudley Henriques dhenriques rcn.com wrote:

Assuming you find a few who do need this tutoring, I suggest you
consider simply pointing them to the source I have mentioned as
a more bandwidth friendly way of "helping educate them".
Personally, I like Bertie's method the best; "Nope!" :-)))
Bertie is anything but bandwidth (or anything else) friendly. If
you were concerned about bandwidth and noise, Dudley Henriques,
you would correct Bertie instead of praise him.
Bertie and everyone else on Usenet can speak for themselves. I
treat people as I see them and as they treat me. Bertie and I get
along on mutual respect. He does his thing and I do mine. I don't
give him a load of crap and he returns the favor. I only wish you
could do the same. You've tried telling me more about myself since
you engaged me on this thread than Bertie has in the years I've
been on Usenet. Now you're telling me about Bertie.

Ignorance is bliss?

You seem to know a lot about everybody. Trouble is you have it ass
backwards.

You were telling someone else to be more bandwidth friendly, then
you praised your friend Bertie. Recognizing the contradiction isn't
rocket science.

But no biggie really.

Right, you are so understanding, while encouraging someone else to
disrupt the groups you post to.

You and I will never understand each other.

Speak for yourself.













DH


--
Dudley Henriques


Path: newssvr14.news.prodigy.net!newsdbm05.news.prodigy. net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!newscon 04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!b order1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!loc al01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.rcn.net!news.rcn.n et.POSTED!not-for-mail
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Subject: OK, IF Backwash Causes Lift then...
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All the best to you.

--
Dudley Henriques