Ramp Fees

I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

Dave

"noname" wrote in message
...
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?


See 14 CFR 91.103 Preflight action
Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar
with all available information concerning that flight.

And, was it really tarmac or was it asphalt or concrete?

[/smartass off]

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

noname wrote:
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

Dave

If someone in management wasn't available to discuss the issue with I
would have told them to bill me and taken it up with management at a
later date.

noname wrote:
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.


Are you sure that wasn't the landing fee? Both the A/FD and Airnav list
the following :

Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all acft except
solo students.

As for unposted ramp fees, I don't like 'em either, but they do exist.
Seems to be mostly an Eastern U.S. thing. I rarely see them out in the West
unless I'm going to a large class B or C airport, or if it's an FBO like
Millionare or Signature, which are somewhat famous for charging ramp fees.
When in doubt, I usually call ahead and ask, or check Airnav.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

On Aug 28, 2:44*pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:
noname wrote:
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

* Are you sure that wasn't the landing fee? *Both the A/FD and Airnav list
the following :

Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all acft except
solo students.

* *As for unposted ramp fees, I don't like 'em either, but they do exist.
Seems to be mostly an Eastern U.S. thing. *I rarely see them out in the West
unless I'm going to a large class B or C airport, or if it's an FBO like
Millionare or Signature, which are somewhat famous for charging ramp fees..
When in doubt, I usually call ahead and ask, or check Airnav.

I use Millionare and Signature all the time. I decided awhile back
that the extra fees are more than worth it for the extra help you get
for the rental car, service, etc when flying with the family. I know a
lot of guys who's family (wife, etc) won't fly with them because they
see it as a hassle. Spend the few extra bucks and have Signature fill
up your plane rather than make your wife get into a hot airplane, taxi
over to fuel, get out, get back in, etc. Just makes everything easier.
I usually buy gas, O2 and snacks, etc. I don't mention the tie down
and they often forget to charge me for it so its often not an issue.
These "top grade" FBOs are also great when the rental car company
screws up your car (which is frequent), because they will drive you
over to the rental car lot or even to your hotel for free.

-Robert

"noname" wrote in message
...
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

Yes, it is legal. When you land at an airport, you are essentially
patronizing a business and the responsibility is with you to investigate
such things beforehand.

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

In this case, their fees were clearly posted in the official publication and
the fee advertized was a landing fee, not a ramp fee. So you incurred that
cost as soon as your wheels hit the runway, not when you taxied to the ramp.
It may also be the airport, and not the FBO who is charging the fee. The
FBO may just be the collection point.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
On Aug 28, 2:44 pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:
noname wrote:
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

Are you sure that wasn't the landing fee? Both the A/FD and Airnav list
the following :

Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all acft except
solo students.

As for unposted ramp fees, I don't like 'em either, but they do exist.
Seems to be mostly an Eastern U.S. thing. I rarely see them out in the
West
unless I'm going to a large class B or C airport, or if it's an FBO like
Millionare or Signature, which are somewhat famous for charging ramp
fees.
When in doubt, I usually call ahead and ask, or check Airnav.

I use Millionare and Signature all the time. I decided awhile back
that the extra fees are more than worth it for the extra help you get
for the rental car, service, etc when flying with the family. I know a
lot of guys who's family (wife, etc) won't fly with them because they
see it as a hassle. Spend the few extra bucks and have Signature fill
up your plane rather than make your wife get into a hot airplane, taxi
over to fuel, get out, get back in, etc. Just makes everything easier.
I usually buy gas, O2 and snacks, etc. I don't mention the tie down
and they often forget to charge me for it so its often not an issue.
These "top grade" FBOs are also great when the rental car company
screws up your car (which is frequent), because they will drive you
over to the rental car lot or even to your hotel for free.

I prefer the independent FBOs to the big chains like Millionair and
Signature. Usually their service is good, but sometimes they treat you like
a leper if you are a Avgas burner. They will quite often park you in the
remotest corner of their ramp to make room for the corporate guys and I've
had them refuse the courtesy car because they only had one available and it
was "reserved". I've also had a few other bad experiences with those
particular two. I really don't blame them because they are catering to a
customer who is buying north of 1000 gals of fuel rather than one who is
buying south of 100. Their prices are also typically outrageous for fuel
and they will routinely charge you $40-50 to fill up a small O2 tank.

I just prefer to go to organizations who cater mostly to the piston guys.
I've gotten service equally as good and they appreciate your business.

Mike wrote:
"noname" wrote in message
...
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

Yes, it is legal. When you land at an airport, you are essentially
patronizing a business and the responsibility is with you to investigate
such things beforehand.

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

In this case, their fees were clearly posted in the official publication
and the fee advertized was a landing fee, not a ramp fee. So you
incurred that cost as soon as your wheels hit the runway, not when you
taxied to the ramp. It may also be the airport, and not the FBO who is
charging the fee. The FBO may just be the collection point.

No the landing fees are totally different than the ramp fees. The
airport charges the landing fees and the FBO charges the ramp fees.

I was flying with an instructor who works from that airport and was also
totally appalled.
I have yet to see anywhere where it is advertised that there is a $20.00
ramp fee. If anybody can find one, please let me know and I'll accept
that I was taken by my own ignorance.

The afd from the faa says "Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all
acft except solo students. Flight Notification Service (ADCUS) available."

In hindsight I should have just pulled the chalks and left with them
hanging on my wing and wait for them to bill me.

Dave

"Dave" wrote in message
...


Mike wrote:
"noname" wrote in message
...
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

Yes, it is legal. When you land at an airport, you are essentially
patronizing a business and the responsibility is with you to investigate
such things beforehand.

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

In this case, their fees were clearly posted in the official publication
and the fee advertized was a landing fee, not a ramp fee. So you
incurred that cost as soon as your wheels hit the runway, not when you
taxied to the ramp. It may also be the airport, and not the FBO who is
charging the fee. The FBO may just be the collection point.

No the landing fees are totally different than the ramp fees. The airport
charges the landing fees and the FBO charges the ramp fees.

The FBO is most likely the collection point for the landing fees.

I was flying with an instructor who works from that airport and was also
totally appalled.
I have yet to see anywhere where it is advertised that there is a $20.00
ramp fee. If anybody can find one, please let me know and I'll accept that
I was taken by my own ignorance.

It's certainly not rare for FBOs to charge a fee for using their ramp,
especially if you are not buying fuel. Typically they are leasing that ramp
space from the owner of the airport, and if that space is limited you can
bet they are going to discourage non-customer aircraft from using it. Your
instructor should have known that, especially if he's based there.

From the airport diagram, there are several parking areas listed other than
the ramp. Why didn't you use one of those? Even with FBOs that don't
charge a ramp fee, it's bad form to use their ramp if you're not a customer
and there's other space available. The reason is because they are going to
send someone out to park you, chalk your aircraft, put down the red carpet,
and/or put cones around your aircraft because they assume you are a
customer.

On Aug 29, 8:39*am, "Mike" wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message

...







Mike wrote:
"noname" wrote in message
....
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

Yes, it is legal. *When you land at an airport, you are essentially
patronizing a business and the responsibility is with you to investigate
such things beforehand.

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

In this case, their fees were clearly posted in the official publication
and the fee advertized was a landing fee, not a ramp fee. *So you
incurred that cost as soon as your wheels hit the runway, not when you
taxied to the ramp. It may also be the airport, and not the FBO who is
charging the fee. *The FBO may just be the collection point.

No the landing fees are totally different than the ramp fees. The airport
charges the landing fees and the FBO charges the ramp fees.

The FBO is most likely the collection point for the landing fees.

I was flying with an instructor who works from that airport and was also
totally appalled.
I have yet to see anywhere where it is advertised that there is a $20.00
ramp fee. If anybody can find one, please let me know and I'll accept that
I was taken by my own ignorance.

It's certainly not rare for FBOs to charge a fee for using their ramp,
especially if you are not buying fuel. *Typically they are leasing that ramp
space from the owner of the airport, and if that space is limited you can
bet they are going to discourage non-customer aircraft from using it. *Your
instructor should have known that, especially if he's based there.

From the airport diagram, there are several parking areas listed other than
the ramp. *Why didn't you use one of those? *Even with FBOs that don't
charge a ramp fee, it's bad form to use their ramp if you're not a customer
and there's other space available. *The reason is because they are going to
send someone out to park you, chalk your aircraft, put down the red carpet,
and/or put cones around your aircraft because they assume you are a
customer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I understand about ramp fees and why they are used. There was no
information anywhere about charging the ramp fee.
When told there was a ramp fee, they gave me no option to move the
airplane and go. I didn't ask to be parked.

I was picking up the instructor.