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  #11  
Old June 29th 04, 06:39 AM
ShawnD2112
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That's great feedback, everyone. Thanks very much. The problem I have at
the moment is that I live in the UK and don't know of any dealers around
which I could fly to and try several on in the airplane. The Softie with
the aerobatic harness sounds like a good bet, though, based on the comments
here.

Thanks, everyone, for taking the time to drop a line in. Much appreciated.

Shawn
"DSowder" wrote in message
...
Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US

contenders
seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size

in
the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid.


I'm 6 ft. and 200 lb. I used a "Mini-Softie" backpack in the S1 ("C"

fuselage,
"S" wings) that I flew for several years, and was satisfied that it was

the
best fit for that airplane.

When I switched to an S-2B, I bought two Wedge Softies (also backpacks),

which
are thicker at the bottom than at the top. The S-2B has good legroom, the

Wedge
leans me back a bit and I have more distance from face to inst. panel.

Again,
the right choice; it's very comfortable, even for 10 hr. flying days.

BUT....the Wedge doesn't work for me in the S-1, because the latter is

very
short on legroom. If I were 3 or 4 inches shorter, it would be a different
story, and the Wedge would be OK. It might also be OK in a "long fuselage"

S-1S
or T. But I think the D is short.

Some folks like the "chair pack" which has a flap below the butt to help

hold
the chute in place during negative G. I don't find any problem with the
straight backpack or the Wedge here, at least not up to -5 g's, which is

about
all I ever do.

My Mini Softie had the pelvis-bruising buckles, which I thought were OK,

so I
ordered the Wedge's that way. After I started flying serious advanced, the
bleeding started bothering me so at repack time, I had Dan convert my

favorite
Wedge to the aerobatic harness. Problem solved.

If you can, borrow chutes from friends to try, or if you are close to a
parachute shop, fly in to visit. Dan at Paraphernalia in Arlington (WA)

has
been more than accomodating to me. It's only about 220 NM from home for

me, so
stopping in isn't difficult. Go to a nearby contest and you'll find 20 to

50
pilots with every conceivable type of parachute, and they'll probably all

be
willing to advise and help. Especially the big ones (pilots, that

is)...it's a
battle for all of us!

Doug Sowder



Ads
  #12  
Old June 30th 04, 04:37 AM
Martin Hellman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message news:[email protected]
Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D.


I fly a motor glider with a Paraphenalia Softie, with the "diaper
packed at the bottom" which is how my rigger calls packing it fatter
at the bottom and thinner at the top (as mentioned by an earlier
poster).

As others have recommended, talking to other Pitts owners is clearly a
good move, making sure to compare body sizes. Maybe one of them will
even lend you his chute to try out, on the ground at a minimum.

Other thoughts: My rigger installed an air bladder in the lower back
area that I can pump up for lower back support. Highly recommended. I
pump it, leave it for a while and release the pressure. A kind of slow
massage that seems to keep my back from getting stiff from being in
one position for many hours. Probably less of an issue in aerobatic
flying than soaring since you'll probably run out of fuel before your
back gets sore.

If you're in the San Francisco area -- and maybe even if you're not --
you ought to try Silver Parachute Sales. Alan Silver runs it and is an
excellent rigger who will treat you right both on initial sale and
repacking. He's based near the Hayward airport, just across the bay
from SFO. I know lots of glider pilots who send him their chutes for
repacking even though there are other, closer riggers. His telephone
is 510-785-7070.

Hope this helps and have fun with the Pitts.

Martin
  #13  
Old July 1st 04, 05:01 AM
Doug Carter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message news:[email protected]
Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D.


I've bought two new Butler seat packs four years ago that I use in my
S2-C. Happy with them. Would buy them again.

Doug Carter
  #14  
Old July 2nd 04, 12:46 AM
ShawnD2112
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

How well do the seat packs work in the Pitts? While I have a cushion or two
under me, I didn't think there would be enough room for a seatpack chute.
Obviously I was wrong?

Cheers,
Shawn
"Doug Carter" wrote in message
om...
"ShawnD2112" wrote in message

news:[email protected]
Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D.


I've bought two new Butler seat packs four years ago that I use in my
S2-C. Happy with them. Would buy them again.

Doug Carter



  #15  
Old July 2nd 04, 01:36 AM
ShawnD2112
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dudley,
Sound advice.

Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've done a
bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until I get
some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were two
things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with a
mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training, there's
always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane touching
someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a good
idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I first
started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled it out
(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of guys
don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the canopy,
exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before hitting the
ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I rarely fly
high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to get
that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a chute
was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.

Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this is a
case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems silly to
deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the hangar.

Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call tonight.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
Dudley




  #16  
Old July 2nd 04, 05:25 AM
Doug Carter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message ...
How well do the seat packs work in the Pitts? While I have a cushion or two
under me, I didn't think there would be enough room for a seatpack chute.
Obviously I was wrong?


I have three cushions, 1", 2" & 4" thick for each seat bottom (as well
as 1" & 2" back cushions). Combination used depends on pilot height.
I'm 5' 11" and use the 1" in the back seat. Note that the back seat
has the least head room; you can jack up a little higher in the
front.

The advantage of the seat pack is that it keeps you further from the
panel. The panel is a bit close (for me) to begin with.

In the Decathlon I used a back pack with no cushion behind it.
Different seat geometry. In the Yak I used seat packs; they have a
bucket for that.

Hope this helps...

Doug Carter
Pitts S2-C.

p.s. All my friends with S1-S & S1-T single seaters use seat packs as
well. dc
  #17  
Old July 2nd 04, 05:48 PM
Guenther Eichhorn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I think that practicing aerobatics below 2000' is not really a good idea. A
good friend of mine got killed when he messed up a hammerhead that he started at
1500'. When I practice new maneuvers, I want to be at 4000' to 5000', higher
if they are spins.

As far as the minimum altitude for chute opening is concerned, I believe that
you can get your chute open fromless than 1000', how much less depends on the
circumstances.

Guenther
----------------------------------------------------
Guenther Eichhorn |
Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA
CPL,ASMELS,Glider,LBH,IA,CFI | Pitts S-2A: N1GE
DC-3 type rating | Flying is the Pitts
http://acro.harvard.edu/ACRO


In article ,
"ShawnD2112" writes:
Dudley,
Sound advice.

Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've done a
bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until I get
some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were two
things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with a
mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training, there's
always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane touching
someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a good
idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I first
started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled it out
(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of guys
don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the canopy,
exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before hitting the
ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I rarely fly
high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to get
that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a chute
was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.

Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this is a
case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems silly to
deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the hangar.

Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call tonight.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
Dudley




  #18  
Old July 2nd 04, 06:40 PM
ShawnD2112
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Guenther,
Sorry to hear about your friend, and I appreciate where your advice is
coming from. I agree with you on practicing new maneuvers but when you're
practicing for a competition you have to be able to get your positioning
right. Competition floor in the UK ast Standard level is 1000 ft.

Shawn
"Guenther Eichhorn" wrote in message
...
I think that practicing aerobatics below 2000' is not really a good idea.

A
good friend of mine got killed when he messed up a hammerhead that he

started at
1500'. When I practice new maneuvers, I want to be at 4000' to 5000',

higher
if they are spins.

As far as the minimum altitude for chute opening is concerned, I believe

that
you can get your chute open fromless than 1000', how much less depends on

the
circumstances.

Guenther
----------------------------------------------------
Guenther Eichhorn |
Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA
CPL,ASMELS,Glider,LBH,IA,CFI | Pitts S-2A: N1GE
DC-3 type rating | Flying is the Pitts
http://acro.harvard.edu/ACRO


In article ,
"ShawnD2112" writes:
Dudley,
Sound advice.

Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've done a
bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until I

get
some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were two
things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with a
mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training, there's
always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane touching
someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a good
idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I first
started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled it

out
(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of

guys
don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the

canopy,
exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before hitting

the
ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I rarely

fly
high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to

get
that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a

chute
was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.

Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this is a
case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems silly

to
deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the hangar.

Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call tonight.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
Dudley






  #19  
Old July 2nd 04, 07:36 PM
dave
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I've been looking for a chute for my citabria - 7ECA. I spoke to Alan
Silver yesterday. He was very nice and explained alot to me about
chutes in the citabria. I'll need to modify my seat back to use a
backpack chute but it sounds worth it.

Some of you may have seen the ad's of pilot standing next to a
demolished citabria. He barely made it out. Alan told me that he had
trouble getting the door off. He pulled the hinger pins successfully
but didn't realize that he needed to push the bottom of the door out to
get it into the slip stream where it will be blown back. According to
Alan the guy had chosen to practice at around 6500AGL. He struggled
with the door for so long that if he had been even a few hundred feet
lower, he might not have made it. Scarey.

The reason he needed to get out was because part of the rear seat came
foward and fouled the rear stick.

I hope I got that story straight.

Dave
7ECA

Martin Hellman wrote:
"ShawnD2112" wrote in message news:[email protected]

Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D.



I fly a motor glider with a Paraphenalia Softie, with the "diaper
packed at the bottom" which is how my rigger calls packing it fatter
at the bottom and thinner at the top (as mentioned by an earlier
poster).

As others have recommended, talking to other Pitts owners is clearly a
good move, making sure to compare body sizes. Maybe one of them will
even lend you his chute to try out, on the ground at a minimum.

Other thoughts: My rigger installed an air bladder in the lower back
area that I can pump up for lower back support. Highly recommended. I
pump it, leave it for a while and release the pressure. A kind of slow
massage that seems to keep my back from getting stiff from being in
one position for many hours. Probably less of an issue in aerobatic
flying than soaring since you'll probably run out of fuel before your
back gets sore.

If you're in the San Francisco area -- and maybe even if you're not --
you ought to try Silver Parachute Sales. Alan Silver runs it and is an
excellent rigger who will treat you right both on initial sale and
repacking. He's based near the Hayward airport, just across the bay
from SFO. I know lots of glider pilots who send him their chutes for
repacking even though there are other, closer riggers. His telephone
is 510-785-7070.

Hope this helps and have fun with the Pitts.

Martin

  #20  
Old July 2nd 04, 07:57 PM
Guenther Eichhorn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yes, of course for a competition you practice lower (even though I personally still don't go
below 2000', because of noise concerns as much as because of safety concernsS). From your
post I assumed that you were new to the Pitts (you said " When I first started flying the
Pitts... "), which would mean that the maneuvers are new for you.

Guenther

In article ,
"ShawnD2112" writes:
Guenther,
Sorry to hear about your friend, and I appreciate where your advice is
coming from. I agree with you on practicing new maneuvers but when you're
practicing for a competition you have to be able to get your positioning
right. Competition floor in the UK ast Standard level is 1000 ft.

Shawn
"Guenther Eichhorn" wrote in message
...
I think that practicing aerobatics below 2000' is not really a good idea.

A
good friend of mine got killed when he messed up a hammerhead that he

started at
1500'. When I practice new maneuvers, I want to be at 4000' to 5000',

higher
if they are spins.

As far as the minimum altitude for chute opening is concerned, I believe

that
you can get your chute open fromless than 1000', how much less depends on

the
circumstances.

Guenther
----------------------------------------------------
Guenther Eichhorn |
Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA
CPL,ASMELS,Glider,LBH,IA,CFI | Pitts S-2A: N1GE
DC-3 type rating | Flying is the Pitts
http://acro.harvard.edu/ACRO


In article ,
"ShawnD2112" writes:
Dudley,
Sound advice.

Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've done a
bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until I

get
some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were two
things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with a
mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training, there's
always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane touching
someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a good
idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I first
started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled it

out
(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of

guys
don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the

canopy,
exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before hitting

the
ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I rarely

fly
high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to

get
that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a

chute
was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.

Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this is a
case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems silly

to
deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the hangar.

Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call tonight.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
Dudley






 




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