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SU-29 vs Extra 300L?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 12th 04, 04:24 AM
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Default SU-29 vs Extra 300L?

Anybody willing to give us a first-person comparison? Handling in
general, care and feeding, personal preferences (and why)?
TIA,

-Dave Russell
8KCAB /N2S-3

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  #2  
Old December 12th 04, 08:52 PM
ShawnD2112
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Default

I'd be interested in hearing such a comparison, too. Hell, throw in the Cap
232 while you're at it!!

Shawn
wrote in message
oups.com...
Anybody willing to give us a first-person comparison? Handling in
general, care and feeding, personal preferences (and why)?
TIA,

-Dave Russell
8KCAB /N2S-3



  #3  
Old December 13th 04, 10:56 PM
Markus Feyerabend
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I guess that chances of hearing from somebody who has sufficient experience
in both (all three) and is willing to report are almost nill...
However, Id be interested as well, although Im lightyears away from
getting my hands on any of the three...! :-(

In the Nov 1991 issue of "FLYER" (UK magazine) Richard Goode flight tested
the SU-26 and made some side comments about the EA-300 (mid wing at that
time, not L). If somebody is interested, I can try to get the article
scanned and faxed.

Regards,
Markus

ShawnD2112 schrieb in Nachricht ...
I'd be interested in hearing such a comparison, too. Hell, throw in the

Cap
232 while you're at it!!




  #4  
Old December 14th 04, 02:12 AM
Byron J. Covey
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Default

Please do.


Thanks BJC


If somebody is interested, I can try to get the article
scanned and faxed.

Regards,
Markus



  #5  
Old December 14th 04, 07:26 AM
Klein
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Default

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 19:52:20 GMT, "ShawnD2112"
wrote:

I'd be interested in hearing such a comparison, too. Hell, throw in the Cap
232 while you're at it!!

Shawn
wrote in message
roups.com...
Anybody willing to give us a first-person comparison? Handling in
general, care and feeding, personal preferences (and why)?
TIA,

-Dave Russell
8KCAB /N2S-3



I can't throw in the 232 because I don't know much about it. But....I
do own a 300L AND an SU-31. I've also taken training in the SU-29
prior to flying the 31. This comparison depends a lot on what your
plans are for the airplane. For example, the 300L has either the best
seat or the worst seat. It is the best and most comfortable for cross
country flying and positive g acrobatics. It is the worst seat for
high g competition with lots of negative g. The Sukhoi's seat is
wonderful for high g aerobatics - for me it reduces the pain by at
least 2g compared to doing the same thing in the 300L. But I can fly
the 300L all day cross country without pain but the Sukhoi kills my
butt after about 2.5 hours.

Care and feeding an Extra really isn't much different than a Cessna or
Cherokee. Just check the oil, put in fuel, give the control surfaces
a _really_ good check (do this with any aerobatic plane), and make
sure there isn't any loose stuff in the fuselage. Starting is simple.
Just like any other fuel injected engine (hot starts require some
technique.)

A Sukhoi (or Yak) requires a lot more fiddling with. You may never,
but NEVER, start it without pulling it through a dozen or so blades.
The starting system is air and the air tends to leak off after a few
hours, days or weeks (if you're lucky) so you need a source of high
pressure air to recharge it. You have to learn the secrets of
properly priming the engine with fuel before attempting a start.
After flying, you have to mess with it for another half hour or so to
open the "snot valve", check for things having vibrated loose, and
clean up the oil that'll be all over the bottom if you've been flying
aerobatics. You will get oil on yourself. Every time.

Both the Extra and the Russian airplanes have been quite reliable and
trouble free for me. Surprisingly, parts for the Russian planes are
available and cheap. Mod kits are available to mitigate a lot of the
oil mess of the Sukhoi.

Flying qualities are rather different. The Extra seems to be very
sensitive on the stick, i.e., use two fingers and a thumb to avoid
PIO. It is very honest and straightforward. Basically, it just does
exactly what you tell it to do and RIGHT NOW. The Sukhoi has a much
longer and heavier stick and needs it. Some maneuvers require both
hands on the stick. A manly airplane. ;-) I had to put in a back
pad to move my shoulders closer to the stick so I could get enough
umph when shoving the stick forward (for snaps). The opposite
rotation of the engine has never been an issue except that you need to
snap with the other foot and the fastest rolls are the opposite
direction. No big deal. Visibility in the Extra is superb.
Unsurpassed by anything else. Forward visibility with the Sukhoi is
not so good. Big round engine and long nose. You learn to approach
the runway in a crab and straighten out in the flare. But at least it
stops quickly whether you use brakes or not. Also jumps off the
runway pretty fast on takeoff. The Extra seems to roll and roll after
landing. Both airplanes roll straight on the runout without much tap
dancing.

Another difference is ramp presence. Everybody turns to look at
what's happening when you start up the Sukhoi. The Extra sounds just
like all the spam cans so nobody looks. People mistake it for a
homebuilt RV or the like and say stuff like "hey, nice job building
it!" Nobody says that about the Sukhoi. They don't know what it is
but they know you didn't build it yourself.

Both the Extra and the Sukhoi are wonderful airplanes. Very different
personalities but both are wonderful. Sort of like comparing Jane
Russell and Grace Kelly.

Klein G.
Bozeman, MT


  #6  
Old December 14th 04, 08:00 AM
ShawnD2112
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Posts: n/a
Default

Klein,

Thanks for contributing that. Personally I was curious as to what the
differences in flying characteristics were and why one aircraft might be
preferable over the other in different situations. If you don't mind my
asking, why do you own both? Are they different enough (comfort factor
aside) that it makes it worth having one of each?

Thanks!
Shawn
"Klein" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 19:52:20 GMT, "ShawnD2112"
wrote:

I'd be interested in hearing such a comparison, too. Hell, throw in the
Cap
232 while you're at it!!

Shawn
wrote in message
groups.com...
Anybody willing to give us a first-person comparison? Handling in
general, care and feeding, personal preferences (and why)?
TIA,

-Dave Russell
8KCAB /N2S-3



I can't throw in the 232 because I don't know much about it. But....I
do own a 300L AND an SU-31. I've also taken training in the SU-29
prior to flying the 31. This comparison depends a lot on what your
plans are for the airplane. For example, the 300L has either the best
seat or the worst seat. It is the best and most comfortable for cross
country flying and positive g acrobatics. It is the worst seat for
high g competition with lots of negative g. The Sukhoi's seat is
wonderful for high g aerobatics - for me it reduces the pain by at
least 2g compared to doing the same thing in the 300L. But I can fly
the 300L all day cross country without pain but the Sukhoi kills my
butt after about 2.5 hours.

Care and feeding an Extra really isn't much different than a Cessna or
Cherokee. Just check the oil, put in fuel, give the control surfaces
a _really_ good check (do this with any aerobatic plane), and make
sure there isn't any loose stuff in the fuselage. Starting is simple.
Just like any other fuel injected engine (hot starts require some
technique.)

A Sukhoi (or Yak) requires a lot more fiddling with. You may never,
but NEVER, start it without pulling it through a dozen or so blades.
The starting system is air and the air tends to leak off after a few
hours, days or weeks (if you're lucky) so you need a source of high
pressure air to recharge it. You have to learn the secrets of
properly priming the engine with fuel before attempting a start.
After flying, you have to mess with it for another half hour or so to
open the "snot valve", check for things having vibrated loose, and
clean up the oil that'll be all over the bottom if you've been flying
aerobatics. You will get oil on yourself. Every time.

Both the Extra and the Russian airplanes have been quite reliable and
trouble free for me. Surprisingly, parts for the Russian planes are
available and cheap. Mod kits are available to mitigate a lot of the
oil mess of the Sukhoi.

Flying qualities are rather different. The Extra seems to be very
sensitive on the stick, i.e., use two fingers and a thumb to avoid
PIO. It is very honest and straightforward. Basically, it just does
exactly what you tell it to do and RIGHT NOW. The Sukhoi has a much
longer and heavier stick and needs it. Some maneuvers require both
hands on the stick. A manly airplane. ;-) I had to put in a back
pad to move my shoulders closer to the stick so I could get enough
umph when shoving the stick forward (for snaps). The opposite
rotation of the engine has never been an issue except that you need to
snap with the other foot and the fastest rolls are the opposite
direction. No big deal. Visibility in the Extra is superb.
Unsurpassed by anything else. Forward visibility with the Sukhoi is
not so good. Big round engine and long nose. You learn to approach
the runway in a crab and straighten out in the flare. But at least it
stops quickly whether you use brakes or not. Also jumps off the
runway pretty fast on takeoff. The Extra seems to roll and roll after
landing. Both airplanes roll straight on the runout without much tap
dancing.

Another difference is ramp presence. Everybody turns to look at
what's happening when you start up the Sukhoi. The Extra sounds just
like all the spam cans so nobody looks. People mistake it for a
homebuilt RV or the like and say stuff like "hey, nice job building
it!" Nobody says that about the Sukhoi. They don't know what it is
but they know you didn't build it yourself.

Both the Extra and the Sukhoi are wonderful airplanes. Very different
personalities but both are wonderful. Sort of like comparing Jane
Russell and Grace Kelly.

Klein G.
Bozeman, MT




  #7  
Old December 14th 04, 08:51 PM
Klein
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:00:58 GMT, "ShawnD2112"
wrote:

Klein,

Thanks for contributing that. Personally I was curious as to what the
differences in flying characteristics were and why one aircraft might be
preferable over the other in different situations. If you don't mind my
asking, why do you own both? Are they different enough (comfort factor
aside) that it makes it worth having one of each?

Thanks!
Shawn


At the highest levels of international unlimited competition, just
look at what people are flying......it's mostly Sukhoi and CAP. Very
few Extras. I can't tell you why because I'm not flying at that
level. ;-)

I have had the Extra since 1998 and just got the Sukhoi a year ago. I
thought that I would just keep them both for a while and see if one or
the other ended up neglected in the corner of the hangar. If so, I'd
sell that one. So far that hasn't happened.

Even if I never take the Extra to a competition again, it is still
very useful as a hotrod runabout. Sort of like have a nice Porsche
Turbo in the garage for those occassional trips around the
neighborhood, while the Sukhoi is really a good bit more specialized
on competition and air show work.

Hope this helps,
Klein
 




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