Impact of Eurofighters in the Middle East

(Jack White) wrote


I'm not an air force expert but it is clear from your post that
neither do you. Lets post your claims at rec.aviation.military and
watch the replies.


The Eurofighter Typhoon will give the Saudi Armed Forces the
capability maintain air superiority over any country in the Middle
East including Israel.


The Eurofighter Typhoon has the Meteor Mach4+ Ramjet Powered air to
air BVR missiles with OVER 100km range.


So? The US AIM-54 is operative for many years now and has a range of
at least 135 km. Why do you think that future American or Israeli made
missiles won't have those capabilities? Why do you think that in the
tiny Israeli airspace medium/long range missiles are more important
than short range ones? Israel clearly has superiority in the short
range. Also, successful tactics, good pilots and electronic measures
and counter measures are very important. While Israel will know the
exact characteristics of the systems Saudi Arabia and Egypt will have
and would fit its planes with appropriate counter measures, the Saudis
won't have a clue about Israel's unique technological modifications
because Israel is doing a lot of those modifications itself.


The Eurofighter Typhoon has the capability to destroy F-15Is and
F-16Is before the F-15I or F-16I even knows that the Eurofighter
Typhoon is there.


The info will probably come from early warning systems. Israel is
relying upon its own early warning systems while Saudi Arabia and
Egypt will have to rely upon inferior systems, unless the US will sell
its best technology to these Arab countries (and I doubt it will
happen). and again, electronic measures and counter measures are
important here and Israel's own industry gives it the technological
superiority over its neighbors.



The F-22 Raptor is the only aircraft that performs better than the
Eurofighter Typhoon in an air superiority capacity.
From what I've read I don't think even the JSF is up to the
Eurofighter Typhoon's level in the air superiority role.
The JSF would certainly be a huge improvement for Israel over F-15Is
and F-16Is though.
An Israeli pilot plus a JSF would probably be
better than a Saudi Pilot with a Eurofighter Typhoon, but with equal
pilots, ONLY the F-22 Raptor is better than the Eurofighter Typhoon
from what I've read.
F-22 Raptors are VERY EXPENSIVE, I don't know if Israel can afford
them even with free US taxpayer money.
I'd think that Israel would probably go for the JSF in the future.




Israel is already part of the JSF project.


Summing this subject I think that none of us could answer the
hypothetical question about air force superiority in the Middle East
in case the Arabs will have Eurofighters.

It is clear though that the Egyptian army, and maybe also the Saudi
Army pose a real threat on Israel. This is not new.

Aaaah but isn't the AIM 54 being retired as the only plane that can carry it
is the F14 which is also nearing it max flying hours so will also be
retired?

BD

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:38:25 +0100, Big Dave wrote:
Aaaah but isn't the AIM 54 being retired as the only plane that can carry it
is the F14 which is also nearing it max flying hours so will also be
retired?

Aparently, Iran (the only F-14 operator apart from the USA) is
building its own copy of the AIM 54.

--
A: top posting

Q: what's the most annoying thing about Usenet?

Iran's F14's have been grounded for years and have not flown at all due to
lack of spares etc.

--
"I have seen the worst that man can do.and I can still laugh loudly"
R.J. Goldman

http://www.usidfvets.com
"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:38:25 +0100, Big Dave
wrote:
Aaaah but isn't the AIM 54 being retired as the only plane that can carry
it
is the F14 which is also nearing it max flying hours so will also be
retired?

Aparently, Iran (the only F-14 operator apart from the USA) is
building its own copy of the AIM 54.

--
A: top posting

Q: what's the most annoying thing about Usenet?

wrote in message
...
Iran's F14's have been grounded for years and have not flown at all due to
lack of spares etc.



Iran's F-14 are still operational and still generate a healthy sortie rate.
If they are grounded then try telling that to Coalition forces stationed in
the Gulf who have observed shadowing by Iranian F-14s even in 2003. In
addition to their operational F-14's the Iranians also generate a healthy
F-4 Phantom sortie rate. If you pick up past copies of Air Forces Monthly
you will see various photographs of F-14 exhibited in Iran and also
undergoing indepth maintenance. Sorry, but your claim that Iranian F-14 have
been grounded for years is simply untrue.

TJ

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:43:50 -0400, wrote:
Iran's F14's have been grounded for years and have not flown at all due to
lack of spares etc.

Don you have a cite for that? And for the general servicability of
aircraft in the Iranian Air Force? The impression I had was that
Iran was having some success in making its own spare parts and/or
buying new components, e.g from China.

On a more general note, why was there a fashion for swing-wing
aircraft in the 60s and 70s -- F-14, F-111, Tornado, MiG-23, etc --
and why did they go out of fashion?

--
A: top posting

Q: what's the most annoying thing about Usenet?

check with Janes.........

--
"I have seen the worst that man can do.and I can still laugh loudly"
R.J. Goldman

http://www.usidfvets.com
"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:43:50 -0400,
wrote:
Iran's F14's have been grounded for years and have not flown at all due
to
lack of spares etc.

Don you have a cite for that? And for the general servicability of
aircraft in the Iranian Air Force? The impression I had was that
Iran was having some success in making its own spare parts and/or
buying new components, e.g from China.

On a more general note, why was there a fashion for swing-wing
aircraft in the 60s and 70s -- F-14, F-111, Tornado, MiG-23, etc --
and why did they go out of fashion?

--
A: top posting

Q: what's the most annoying thing about Usenet?

-----Original Message-----
From:
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military,soc.culture.israel
Date: 14. September 2003. 16:43
Subject: Impact of Eurofighters in the Middle East


Iran's F14's have been grounded for years and have not flown at all due to
lack of spares etc.

Ever heard of "Iran-Contra" and Mr. "I cannot recall, your honor" Oliver
North (8-) ?

Nele

NULLA ROSA SINE SPINA

wrote in message .. .
Iran's F14's have been grounded for years and have not flown at all due to
lack of spares etc.

Are you sure of that? ISTR that they still manage to keep a few flying
these days, according to reports in some of the trade magazines. One
US source indicates about 25 of them may remain operational
(www.afa.org/magazine/Dec2002/1202iran.asp).

Also see:


www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0077.shtml

www.rferl.org/iran-report/1999/09/36-130999.html

Your claim sounds more hopeful than accurate...and why the top
posting?

Brooks


--
"I have seen the worst that man can do.and I can still laugh loudly"
R.J. Goldman

http://www.usidfvets.com
"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:38:25 +0100, Big Dave
wrote:
Aaaah but isn't the AIM 54 being retired as the only plane that can carry
it
is the F14 which is also nearing it max flying hours so will also be
retired?

Aparently, Iran (the only F-14 operator apart from the USA) is
building its own copy of the AIM 54.

--
A: top posting

Q: what's the most annoying thing about Usenet?

I hope that every country surrounding Israel will purchase full complements
of
those EF2000. It will deplete their budgets and will render their airforces
useless
without Israelis haveing to shoot a single antiaircraft missile. According
to all reports
EF2000 is the most expensive heap of non-airworthy trash ever built.


"Quant" wrote in message
om...
(Jack White) wrote


I'm not an air force expert but it is clear from your post that
neither do you. Lets post your claims at rec.aviation.military and
watch the replies.


The Eurofighter Typhoon will give the Saudi Armed Forces the
capability maintain air superiority over any country in the Middle
East including Israel.


The Eurofighter Typhoon has the Meteor Mach4+ Ramjet Powered air to
air BVR missiles with OVER 100km range.


So? The US AIM-54 is operative for many years now and has a range of
at least 135 km. Why do you think that future American or Israeli made
missiles won't have those capabilities? Why do you think that in the
tiny Israeli airspace medium/long range missiles are more important
than short range ones? Israel clearly has superiority in the short
range. Also, successful tactics, good pilots and electronic measures
and counter measures are very important. While Israel will know the
exact characteristics of the systems Saudi Arabia and Egypt will have
and would fit its planes with appropriate counter measures, the Saudis
won't have a clue about Israel's unique technological modifications
because Israel is doing a lot of those modifications itself.


The Eurofighter Typhoon has the capability to destroy F-15Is and
F-16Is before the F-15I or F-16I even knows that the Eurofighter
Typhoon is there.


The info will probably come from early warning systems. Israel is
relying upon its own early warning systems while Saudi Arabia and
Egypt will have to rely upon inferior systems, unless the US will sell
its best technology to these Arab countries (and I doubt it will
happen). and again, electronic measures and counter measures are
important here and Israel's own industry gives it the technological
superiority over its neighbors.



The F-22 Raptor is the only aircraft that performs better than the
Eurofighter Typhoon in an air superiority capacity.
From what I've read I don't think even the JSF is up to the
Eurofighter Typhoon's level in the air superiority role.
The JSF would certainly be a huge improvement for Israel over F-15Is
and F-16Is though.
An Israeli pilot plus a JSF would probably be
better than a Saudi Pilot with a Eurofighter Typhoon, but with equal
pilots, ONLY the F-22 Raptor is better than the Eurofighter Typhoon
from what I've read.
F-22 Raptors are VERY EXPENSIVE, I don't know if Israel can afford
them even with free US taxpayer money.
I'd think that Israel would probably go for the JSF in the future.




Israel is already part of the JSF project.


Summing this subject I think that none of us could answer the
hypothetical question about air force superiority in the Middle East
in case the Arabs will have Eurofighters.

It is clear though that the Egyptian army, and maybe also the Saudi
Army pose a real threat on Israel. This is not new.