First Annual Fun - Day 2

Dave Stadt wrote:

You missed the point. Putting it on jacks and removing the jacks is not
part of an annual inspection. My IA uses three tools during an annual......a
pen, a mirror and a flashlight. I can't see paying IA rates to squeeze a
grease gun, remove inspection plates or all the other no brainier tasks
involved in an annual.

Your IA does a gear inspection without jacks? How does he check the
timing with a pen, a mirror and a flashlight?

I'm not missing the point, but perhaps I'm not making myself clear. In
order to do an inspection there are certain tools that have to be used.
Setting up those tools take some time. Wether or not the IA sets those up
or the owner does it, doesn't matter. Its the same amount of MANHOURS
either way. Granted what you pay the IA may be less, but the total
MANHOURS remains relatively the same.





--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

Frank Stutzman wrote:
Ron Natalie wrote:


Putting Greases in "zerks" is not part of the inspection. It's
maintenance that might be conveniently done at the inspection time, but
Jim is counting only the inspection steps no doubt.


Yeah, I knew somebody was going to point that out. The thing is that
greasing of the landing gear zerks must be done. If you don't do it
during the inspection, you have may have reduced the inspection time, but
you have increased your shop time.

Ok, just for arguments sake, Lets say no greasing or adjusting of the gear
is neccessary. I am pretty sure that my IA cannot put my Bonanza on the
jacks, inspect the gear, and take it off the jacks by himself in 1.5
hours. He can certainly do it in a hour if I am there to help. However,
that makes it 2 MANHOURS to do the inspection. According to Jim's
figuring he has a remaining 2 hours to do the rest of the inspection.
Sounds kinda tough.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

I think Jim's style is more "have your airplane up on the jacks,
greased, and ready to go when I get there for the inspection." Taking
it off the jacks is minimal time and since you took all the inspection
plates off, removed what of the interior has to be removed and did all
your preventative stuff BEFORE he walks in the hangar the inspection
won't take much time at all.

Margy

Margy writes:

Frank Stutzman wrote:
Ron Natalie wrote:

Putting Greases in "zerks" is not part of the inspection. It's
maintenance that might be conveniently done at the inspection time,
but Jim is counting only the inspection steps no doubt.
Yeah, I knew somebody was going to point that out. The thing is
that greasing of the landing gear zerks must be done. If you don't
do it during the inspection, you have may have reduced the
inspection time, but you have increased your shop time. Ok, just
for arguments sake, Lets say no greasing or adjusting of the gear
is neccessary. I am pretty sure that my IA cannot put my Bonanza on the
jacks, inspect the gear, and take it off the jacks by himself in 1.5
hours. He can certainly do it in a hour if I am there to help.
However, that makes it 2 MANHOURS to do the inspection. According
to Jim's
figuring he has a remaining 2 hours to do the rest of the
inspection. Sounds kinda tough.

I think Jim's style is more "have your airplane up on the jacks,
greased, and ready to go when I get there for the inspection." Taking
it off the jacks is minimal time and since you took all the inspection
plates off, removed what of the interior has to be removed and did all
your preventative stuff BEFORE he walks in the hangar the inspection
won't take much time at all.

Yes, this has been Jim's MO when he came to my hangar for the
last two annual inspections on my plane. All of the grunt work
was done by the time he arrived.

And don't forget to log all that time towards your A&P cert!

-jav

I do know that putting my Bonanza up on the jacks,

Not part of the inspection.



swinging the gear,

Ten minutes.



inspecting the uplock cables,

Five minutes.



hitting a few zerks with grease

Not part of the inspection.




(which
really can only effectively be done with the gear partially up), and
taking it off the jacks will easily consume an hour.

Not part of the inspection.


Jim

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:08:49 +0000 (UTC), Frank Stutzman
wrote:

Ok, just for arguments sake, Lets say no greasing or adjusting of the gear
is neccessary. I am pretty sure that my IA cannot put my Bonanza on the
jacks, inspect the gear, and take it off the jacks by himself in 1.5
hours. He can certainly do it in a hour if I am there to help. However,
that makes it 2 MANHOURS to do the inspection. According to Jim's
figuring he has a remaining 2 hours to do the rest of the inspection.
Sounds kinda tough.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

Book time is 36 hours for the inspection on a Bonanza. You can do it
correctly or you can do it via pencil. Most experienced shops will
take about 24 man hours.

You missed the point. Putting it on jacks and removing the jacks is not
part of an annual inspection. My IA uses three tools during an
annual......a
pen, a mirror and a flashlight. I can't see paying IA rates to squeeze a
grease gun, remove inspection plates or all the other no brainier tasks
involved in an annual.

I'll expand that list out a little. Pen, mirror, and flashlight are
important. Also important are a protractor ("witch's hat" or tyme-right)
and buzzbox to check the mag timing and a compression tester. Those are my
six. When inspecting an aluminum aircraft that has lived near the coast,
I'll also break out the dental pick to check for suspicious corrosion spots.


I'm not missing the point, but perhaps I'm not making myself clear. In
order to do an inspection there are certain tools that have to be used.
Setting up those tools take some time. Wether or not the IA sets those up
or the owner does it, doesn't matter. Its the same amount of MANHOURS
either way. Granted what you pay the IA may be less, but the total
MANHOURS remains relatively the same.

So let me make MYSELF clear. Somebody here threw out a number for a Banana
annual. I think it was something on the order of 24 hours. That is
probably very close to correct. My point is that the actual INSPECTION
(looking, measuring, testing) is something on the order of 4 hours and the
jacking up, jacking down, jacking around, pulling panels, degreasing the
engine, degreasing the belly, replacing minor hardware that has rattled off
in the last year, replacing tires that have cord showing, packing the wheel
bearings, and all the other greasy stuff is the other 20 hours. It doesn't
take an IA to do that stuff, but the shop will charge you IA rates to have
the mit (mechanic in training) do it if you want. Or you can do it yourself
and save the $2500 or so in labor charges for the privilege. Your call.

The difference between a $200 annual and a $3000 annual is simply how greasy
you are willing to get.

Jim

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...


You missed the point. Putting it on jacks and removing the jacks is
not
part of an annual inspection. My IA uses three tools during an
annual......a
pen, a mirror and a flashlight. I can't see paying IA rates to squeeze
a
grease gun, remove inspection plates or all the other no brainier tasks
involved in an annual.

I'll expand that list out a little. Pen, mirror, and flashlight are
important. Also important are a protractor ("witch's hat" or tyme-right)
and buzzbox to check the mag timing and a compression tester. Those are
my
six. When inspecting an aluminum aircraft that has lived near the coast,
I'll also break out the dental pick to check for suspicious corrosion
spots.

I check and adjust timing (under supervision of course) and do the
compression check. I leave the witch's hat and buzz box set up for the IA
to check my adjustment. It takes him at most 30 seconds on a Continental
O-200. The timing and compression check tools cost about $200 (assuming one
owns a compressor) which is recouped in very short order. I much prefer the
IA spend his time "inspecting" and using his IA abilities and not screwing
around getting distracted with piddle stuff that I can and should have taken
care of myself. This has worked well for many years and the IA always gets
a free lunch.

Free lunch [perk]. FREE LUNCH???

{;-)

Jim

(TINSTAAFL)



This has worked well for many years and the IA always gets
a free lunch.

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:25:05 -0500, Jon A. wrote:

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:08:49 +0000 (UTC), Frank Stutzman
wrote:

Ok, just for arguments sake, Lets say no greasing or adjusting of the gear
is neccessary. I am pretty sure that my IA cannot put my Bonanza on the
jacks, inspect the gear, and take it off the jacks by himself in 1.5

I watched mine go on the jacks and it took less than 10 minutes.
Terry had a set of hydraulics, you slid them in place, jacked it up
and put in the pins. With the wheels off the floor they could cycle
the gear. He was thorough and *relatively* inexpensive. Too bad he's
no longer with us.

hours. He can certainly do it in a hour if I am there to help. However,
that makes it 2 MANHOURS to do the inspection. According to Jim's

OTOH, going through every moving connection and the gear box under the
seats took more than two hours.

Being as I fly mine to another airport for the annual, I do not have
the luxury of "getting it ready" beyond a few items.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

figuring he has a remaining 2 hours to do the rest of the inspection.
Sounds kinda tough.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

Book time is 36 hours for the inspection on a Bonanza. You can do it
correctly or you can do it via pencil. Most experienced shops will
take about 24 man hours.

"RST Engineering" writes:

Free lunch [perk]. FREE LUNCH???

Hey, you got free diet sodas at my last annual, doesn't that
count for nuth'n?

Alright, alright, I'll get the burgers this time...

-jav