How long before /G required for IFR?

And in the sport of orienteering, it's quite
common to take an approximate bearing to one linear feature, aimed off a
bit so you know which way to turn, and then follow the linear feature to
the point feature that you're looking for.

Why don't pilots do approximate bearings like that?

They do. VFR. When you are in the clouds, surrounded by moutains,
towers, and other airplanes, it is important to fly directly to where
you are cleared. Flying "approximately and off to one side" would work
fine unless you reach CG or CA first. IFR isn't about "getting there",
it's about "getting there without hitting anything".

And cfeyeeye - if I fly an airplane with no navigation equipment
whatsoever except a compass, clock, and tuna sandwich, and accept an IFR
clearance direct to Fubar expecting to dead reckon my way there, would
you consider this legal according to the the regs (in the US)?

Try 91.205

d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and
equipment are required:

(2) Two-way radio communications system and navigational equipment
appropriate to the ground facilities to be used.

The key word is "appropriate". And the FAA gets to determine whether
what you have is "appropriate". If you can find me =any= case where the
FAA has found that a tuna sandwich, compass, and clock (alone) was
"appropriate" for IFR naviagation, I will personally eat the tuna sandwich.

Part of the issue (of course) is the use of the word "use" to mean "rely
on". But I think you know that.

Jose
--
Nothing is more powerful than a commercial interest.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

wrote:


Where does it say I cannot accept this clearance and dead reckon my
way to this intersection?

Because direct is not ded reckoning. Direct is the straight line
between two points. Ded reckoning may or may not be.

Jose wrote:



And cfeyeeye - if I fly an airplane with no navigation equipment
whatsoever except a compass, clock, and tuna sandwich, and accept an IFR
clearance direct to Fubar expecting to dead reckon my way there, would
you consider this legal according to the the regs (in the US)?

Not legal. And no controller would clear you direct.

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
And yet if you suggest to
another pilot that you could get to "so-and-so" intersection (which is
the
intersection of two airways that you're not currently on) from here by
taking a 200 heading until you hit the airway, then turning down along
the
airway until you hit the intersection, and they look at you like you've
grown an extra horn on your head.

Why don't pilots do approximate bearings like that? The only thing I've
seen close to that is when ATC will give you an approximate heading to a
VOR a long way away and say "fly 200 degrees, then direct ETX when able".


Because you are required to fly direct, not find your way there by some
indirect route. If you are cleared from present position direct FOOBAR,
you are required to fly along the direct course between those two points.

§ 91.181 Course to be flown.
Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft
within controlled airspace under IFR except as follows:

(a) On a Federal airway, along the centerline of that airway.


So why are the airways eight miles wide?

"Newps" wrote in message
...

Not legal. And no controller would clear you direct.


How would the controller know?

"Newps" wrote in message
...

Because direct is not ded reckoning. Direct is the straight line between
two points. Ded reckoning may or may not be.


Well, if dead reckoning may be a straight line between two points it cannot
be excluded from IFR operations.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
And yet if you suggest to
another pilot that you could get to "so-and-so" intersection (which is
the
intersection of two airways that you're not currently on) from here by
taking a 200 heading until you hit the airway, then turning down along
the
airway until you hit the intersection, and they look at you like you've
grown an extra horn on your head.

Why don't pilots do approximate bearings like that? The only thing I've
seen close to that is when ATC will give you an approximate heading to a
VOR a long way away and say "fly 200 degrees, then direct ETX when
able".


Because you are required to fly direct, not find your way there by some
indirect route. If you are cleared from present position direct FOOBAR,
you are required to fly along the direct course between those two points.

§ 91.181 Course to be flown.
Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft
within controlled airspace under IFR except as follows:

(a) On a Federal airway, along the centerline of that airway.


So why are the airways eight miles wide?


I don't know. Why are they? I would like to know.

But it is irrelevant to the issue at hand. The rule says what it says.

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

I don't know. Why are they? I would like to know.

But it is irrelevant to the issue at hand. The rule says what it says.


Yup. Why isn't the rule enforced?

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:14:56 GMT, "Dan Thompson" wrote:

Sorry, Mr. Old School. It is tuna now, in sensitivity to diversity of
religious preference and dietary issues.

But, in view of the mercury levels in tuna, there is going to have to be a
limit on the amount of IFR navigation performed using this method.
Consumer Reports recommends a limitation of 3 oz/week; and the gov't says 6
oz/week. So it seems to me that we need to work up an appropriate FAA
limitation, too.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:27:47 GMT, "Colin W Kingsbury"
wrote:

there is no way for me to navigate from my
present position to FUBAR in a straight line sans RNAV

The old (pre 1996) USAF manual AFM 51-37 had a technique which could be
used to do that. And USAF pilots were trained in that technique. However,
I am told the current manual no longer discusses this method, it having
been replaced with INS, RNAV, GPS, etc.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)