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Using Plasma Rope For Winch Tows



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 28th 03, 11:00 PM
Craig Freeman
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Default Using Plasma Rope For Winch Tows

We recently converted from 3/16 7x9 cable to 3/16 plasma rope on our winch.
"Plasma", made from Honeywell "Spectra" fiber, seems to have some real
advantages over wire or cable. Some benifits include light weight, 11.48lbs
per thousand, (that's not much even converted to metric!!), hollow braid
(no twisting), 5000 lb breaking strength (that a lot even converted to
metric!!), 25% increase in launch heights. We operate from asphalt and
it seems to be holding up wery well. Expensive? Yes! However in our
environment it promises to far outlast steel which would make it cheaper
in the long run plus the added benifits. Sorry this sounds like a commerical
I was just so tired of that !@#$@#%%^# wire. If anyone else has any experience
with this stuff is there anything we should be looking out for?

Happy Winching,
Craig-
  #2  
Old July 28th 03, 11:21 PM
Bill Daniels
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Default


"Craig Freeman" wrote in message
...
We recently converted from 3/16 7x9 cable to 3/16 plasma rope on our

winch.
"Plasma", made from Honeywell "Spectra" fiber, seems to have some real
advantages over wire or cable. Some benifits include light weight,

11.48lbs
per thousand, (that's not much even converted to metric!!), hollow braid
(no twisting), 5000 lb breaking strength (that a lot even converted to
metric!!), 25% increase in launch heights. We operate from asphalt and
it seems to be holding up wery well. Expensive? Yes! However in our
environment it promises to far outlast steel which would make it cheaper
in the long run plus the added benifits. Sorry this sounds like a

commerical
I was just so tired of that !@#$@#%%^# wire. If anyone else has any

experience
with this stuff is there anything we should be looking out for?

Happy Winching,
Craig-


You should be looking out for:
1. A lot of fun not interrupted by wire tangles.
2. A lot more soaring from the higher release heights.
3. A lot more soaring from the lower costs of the launch.
4. A lot fewer band-aids consumed due to fewer wire cuts on your hands.
5. No wire failures due to rust.

The stuff gets ugly and fuzzy as it wears out so you have a lot of visual
warning long before it gets too weak to use. BTW, I think washing it
occasionally might extend the usable life - you'll have to figure out how to
do that.

I just checked (again) the maximum safe working load of 3/16" 7x7 steel.
It's about 900 pounds if there are no dynamic loads. Spectra is WAY
stronger than that and it doesn't seem to be as sensitive to dynamic loads.

Thanks for the report.

Bill Daniels

  #3  
Old July 29th 03, 06:54 AM
Gale Henslee
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Default

This is very interesting to me - I am building a winch, and have been
thinking (agonizing) over the best cable to buy. Can you provide a
reference where I can find more information, and also tell me where
you bought yours? Thanks
  #4  
Old July 29th 03, 08:21 AM
Simon Walker
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Posts: n/a
Default

How does one splice it you get a cable break or a birds
nest on the winch drum and need to cut it to untangle?






At 22:54 28 July 2003, Bill Daniels wrote:

'Craig Freeman' wrote in message
m...
We recently converted from 3/16 7x9 cable to 3/16
plasma rope on our

winch.
'Plasma', made from Honeywell 'Spectra' fiber, seems
to have some real
advantages over wire or cable. Some benifits include
light weight,

11.48lbs
per thousand, (that's not much even converted to metric!!),
hollow braid
(no twisting), 5000 lb breaking strength (that a lot
even converted to
metric!!), 25% increase in launch heights. We operate
from asphalt and
it seems to be holding up wery well. Expensive? Yes!
However in our
environment it promises to far outlast steel which
would make it cheaper
in the long run plus the added benifits. Sorry this
sounds like a

commerical
I was just so tired of that !@#$@#^# wire. If anyone
else has any

experience
with this stuff is there anything we should be looking
out for?

Happy Winching,
Craig-


You should be looking out for:
1. A lot of fun not interrupted by wire tangles.
2. A lot more soaring from the higher release heights.
3. A lot more soaring from the lower costs of the launch.
4. A lot fewer band-aids consumed due to fewer wire
cuts on your hands.
5. No wire failures due to rust.

The stuff gets ugly and fuzzy as it wears out so you
have a lot of visual
warning long before it gets too weak to use. BTW,
I think washing it
occasionally might extend the usable life - you'll
have to figure out how to
do that.

I just checked (again) the maximum safe working load
of 3/16' 7x7 steel.
It's about 900 pounds if there are no dynamic loads.
Spectra is WAY
stronger than that and it doesn't seem to be as sensitive
to dynamic loads.

Thanks for the report.

Bill Daniels





  #5  
Old July 29th 03, 09:30 AM
goneill
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Posts: n/a
Default

At Auckland gliding club we are using plain standard rope (aerotow)and find
this works just as well as the more expensive spectra and others like it.The
only difference is in the initial lift off the ground and rotation .The rope
is more elastic and if you do not get load on the cable quickly and maintain
it, an oscillation can start between glider and winch. result: slow fast
slow fast etc launch. The main advantage is its cheap and available
everywhere.
Splicing is the same as aero tow ropes but double the length.
We use the correct weak link for the a/c type
We have found the increase in height is roughly the same as spectra and
others like it.
gary

"Craig Freeman" wrote in message
...
We recently converted from 3/16 7x9 cable to 3/16 plasma rope on our

winch.
"Plasma", made from Honeywell "Spectra" fiber, seems to have some real
advantages over wire or cable. Some benifits include light weight,

11.48lbs
per thousand, (that's not much even converted to metric!!), hollow braid
(no twisting), 5000 lb breaking strength (that a lot even converted to
metric!!), 25% increase in launch heights. We operate from asphalt and
it seems to be holding up wery well. Expensive? Yes! However in our
environment it promises to far outlast steel which would make it cheaper
in the long run plus the added benifits. Sorry this sounds like a

commerical
I was just so tired of that !@#$@#%%^# wire. If anyone else has any

experience
with this stuff is there anything we should be looking out for?

Happy Winching,
Craig-



  #6  
Old July 29th 03, 10:05 AM
Simon Walker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Do you have any idea how it stacks up cost wise compared
to wire rope?
i.e. twice, three. four times as expensive??
Thanks.


At 22:36 28 July 2003, Craig Freeman wrote:
We recently converted from 3/16 7x9 cable to 3/16 plasma
rope on our winch.
'Plasma', made from Honeywell 'Spectra' fiber, seems
to have some real
advantages over wire or cable. Some benifits include
light weight, 11.48lbs
per thousand, (that's not much even converted to metric!!),
hollow braid
(no twisting), 5000 lb breaking strength (that a lot
even converted to
metric!!), 25% increase in launch heights. We operate
from asphalt and
it seems to be holding up wery well. Expensive? Yes!
However in our
environment it promises to far outlast steel which
would make it cheaper
in the long run plus the added benifits. Sorry this
sounds like a commerical
I was just so tired of that !@#$@#^# wire. If anyone
else has any experience
with this stuff is there anything we should be looking
out for?

Happy Winching,
Craig-




  #7  
Old July 29th 03, 01:54 PM
George William Peter Reinhart
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Plasma Rope"
Brand name?
Mfr.?
Source?
Thanks.
Cheers!
  #8  
Old July 29th 03, 03:18 PM
Wallace Berry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
(Craig Freeman) wrote:

We recently converted from 3/16 7x9 cable to 3/16 plasma rope on our winch.
"Plasma", made from Honeywell "Spectra" fiber, seems to have some real
advantages over wire or cable. Some benifits include light weight, 11.48lbs
per thousand, (that's not much even converted to metric!!), hollow braid
(no twisting), 5000 lb breaking strength (that a lot even converted to
metric!!), 25% increase in launch heights. We operate from asphalt and
it seems to be holding up wery well. Expensive? Yes! However in our
environment it promises to far outlast steel which would make it cheaper
in the long run plus the added benifits. Sorry this sounds like a commerical
I was just so tired of that !@#$@#%%^# wire. If anyone else has any experience
with this stuff is there anything we should be looking out for?

Happy Winching,
Craig-




Well, I was waiting for someone from the Memphis club to post. However,
no one has so far, so I'll have a go.

The Memphis club purchased Glen Lawler's winch a few months ago. My
club, Southern Eagles, used this winch with excellent results for a
couple of years. We only stopped using the winch when we moved to an
airport with crossing runways where we had marginal room for the cable.

A couple of weeks ago, Glen Klingshirn and I had the good fortune to be
invited up to Memphis to train their guys on winch launching. Just as an
aside, I have to say that you won't find a better bunch of folks to fly
with. The hospitality and fellowship was superb. They are also making
the ultimate contribution to the future of soaring in the U.S.: The
Memphis Soaring Society has established their own field at Cherry
Valley, Arkansas. They are doing it right with a huge field, immense
hangar and a beautiful clubhouse under construction.

Anyway, the MSS has equipped one drum on the (two drum) winch with
Spectra. The original wire rope is on the other drum. After a few
launches with the cable, we switched to the Spectra and didn't look
back. The Spectra seems to give higher launches although we didn't do
enough launches with the wire to make a valid comparison. The Spectra
had no more noticeable stretch than the cable so we didn't have any
"bungee" dynamics to work around. To me the biggest, and unexpected,
advantage of the Spectra was that it did not have enough mass to throw
itself into a tangle. During training of new winch drivers, we had a few
incidents which would have put a tangle in wire rope, but with the
Spectra, there was never a tangle of any kind. The Spectra also seemed
to be holding up well through 30 launches or so. The only minor problem
with the Spectra is that it has so little mass that the cable end strop
would fall through the chute unless the winch driver got the power back
on quickly after the glider released. This was just a problem with winch
driver trainees and resolved after each driver got more experience.

It may be that exotic stuff like Spectra is not needed for a winch. The
dacron rope that we have used for auto launch is very similar in
appearance and has almost no stretch like the Spectra. It is also
abrasion resistant. It is not as strong as Spectra but is plenty strong
enough. It may do as well as Spectra on a winch and is cheaper.

Wallace (help stamp out winchophobia) Berry

  #9  
Old July 29th 03, 07:36 PM
Craig Freeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Simon Walker wrote in message ...
Do you have any idea how it stacks up cost wise compared
to wire rope?
i.e. twice, three. four times as expensive??
Thanks.


Its three to four times as much. However, after having experienced
the frustrastions associated with wire for the last two years, this
is like heaven. We pull on a paved runway. Any wire splice or small
kink wears at an extrodinary rate. Plasma rope lays flat and does not
kink,
the light wieght reduces effect of friction on the pull and allows
for the rope to become airborn much quicker all reducing the wear
factor. In the long run Plasma may be cost effective even without the
added benifits of ease of use, added launch hieght ect. . Plasma has a
very small tendency to "birds
nest" as it has very little stretch so no recoil if released
under tension. Also it is relaxed on the spool so it does not try
to grow if the speed suddenly slows on the pull out. Our winch has a
48" drum and no level wind. Plasma does not self level as well as wire
did however it is satisfactory. More info on Plasma here
www.thecortlandcompanies.com/psrope/ .

Craig-
  #10  
Old July 31st 03, 05:32 AM
Mark Busse
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Posts: n/a
Default

Wallace you did a great job on this write up . Sorry I have not post
for a long time, I was tired of getting all the porn after my address
was mined out of the archives (I just figured out why some of the
regulars put "DELETE" in their address line, I will see how well it
works)

Again Wallace did such a good job there is not much for me to add. We
have now been operating it each weekend,but due to the treelines we
can only pull 3600' of PLASMA not SPECTRA we went with the more
expensive stuff but I think the SPECTRA will work as well. I thought
we would have done a more accurate comparision of steel vs. Plasma but
no one will pull the steel out anymore. So we have a two drum winch
and we operate it as if it had only one, I can hardly wait for us to
budget the funds to buy rope for the one.
We have not had any launches with strong headwinds in fact there has
been little or no wind at all. The steel launches we made were
700'-900' then the Plasma were 1000'-1200' I wish we could pull out
1500' more rope maybe someday.
There are a couple of note Wallace did not mention.
1. Winch drive cannot read cable tention by observation of the droupe
THERE IS NO DROUPE!!! It looks like the glider is being shot in the
belley by a Purple laser beam.
2. One man can pull extra slack if the strope is too short for a
hookup.
3. No snags or injurys

BTW Dick Kilburn at PSROPE.COM is the salesman that handles our
account, he has been waiting a long time for us to move to our new
gliderport so we could operate the winch. We have about 100 launches
on the rope to date and it shows no sign of wear.
Mark


Well, I was waiting for someone from the Memphis club to post. However,
no one has so far, so I'll have a go.

The Memphis club purchased Glen Lawler's winch a few months ago. My
club, Southern Eagles, used this winch with excellent results for a
couple of years. We only stopped using the winch when we moved to an
airport with crossing runways where we had marginal room for the cable.

A couple of weeks ago, Glen Klingshirn and I had the good fortune to be
invited up to Memphis to train their guys on winch launching. Just as an
aside, I have to say that you won't find a better bunch of folks to fly
with. The hospitality and fellowship was superb. They are also making
the ultimate contribution to the future of soaring in the U.S.: The
Memphis Soaring Society has established their own field at Cherry
Valley, Arkansas. They are doing it right with a huge field, immense
hangar and a beautiful clubhouse under construction.

Anyway, the MSS has equipped one drum on the (two drum) winch with
Spectra. The original wire rope is on the other drum. After a few
launches with the cable, we switched to the Spectra and didn't look
back. The Spectra seems to give higher launches although we didn't do
enough launches with the wire to make a valid comparison. The Spectra
had no more noticeable stretch than the cable so we didn't have any
"bungee" dynamics to work around. To me the biggest, and unexpected,
advantage of the Spectra was that it did not have enough mass to throw
itself into a tangle. During training of new winch drivers, we had a few
incidents which would have put a tangle in wire rope, but with the
Spectra, there was never a tangle of any kind. The Spectra also seemed
to be holding up well through 30 launches or so. The only minor problem
with the Spectra is that it has so little mass that the cable end strop
would fall through the chute unless the winch driver got the power back
on quickly after the glider released. This was just a problem with winch
driver trainees and resolved after each driver got more experience.

It may be that exotic stuff like Spectra is not needed for a winch. The
dacron rope that we have used for auto launch is very similar in
appearance and has almost no stretch like the Spectra. It is also
abrasion resistant. It is not as strong as Spectra but is plenty strong
enough. It may do as well as Spectra on a winch and is cheaper.

Wallace (help stamp out winchophobia) Berry

 




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