FAA sticks to its guns on not allowing solo glider flight for out ofcurrency power pilots

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 9:05:28 AM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 12:24:29 AM UTC-4, Bill T wrote:

It is my understanding that The FAA no longer considers a pilot with a certificate, a student. They are a rated pilot in search of additional ratings.
Hence they do not require a written test going from airplane to glider. As shown in other posts on RAS, the way to be considered a student is to turn in all your certificates and start from scratch, a student, complete with written tests and student limitations,

This appears to work differently for PPL-Power and PPL-Glider.

In March 2016, I asked the Portland ME FSDO whether my PPL-Glider certificate would allow me to solo a power plane (assuming current medical and CFI endorsement). They told me (in writing) that I needed to obtain a valid Student Pilot license.

Has anyone obtained a different opinion from a different FSDO?

I'm hoping that IACRA is programmed correctly, and lets me obtain a student pilot certificate, even though I already hold a PPL-Glider.

Used to be going from glider to airplane you'd have to take the airplane written(written not required airplane-glider) but you did not need a student pilots license. Inline with the FR issue it should be impossible to issue you a student license as you are a Private Pilot (with category of Glider.) Either the FSDO is wrong or the FAA have made policy changes. Keep us informed of how it plays out.

On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 11:24:29 PM UTC-5, Bill T wrote:
If by Bill, you mean me?

It is my understanding that The FAA no longer considers a pilot with a certificate, a student. They are a rated pilot in search of additional ratings.
Hence they do not require a written test going from airplane to glider. As shown in other posts on RAS, the way to be considered a student is to turn in all your certificates and start from scratch, a student, complete with written tests and student limitations,

BillT

Thinking this even further through, could we surmise that anywhere Part 61 says "Student Pilot" means "someone holding a Student Pilot certificate"? So wherever that comes up, would that paragraph even apply to someone with any other pilot certificate level?

So, all of the limitations concerning cross-country, night flying, and Class B airspace flying, etc. would not apply to the add-on "trainee" holding Private or higher pilot certificates once the CFI signs him off to solo in the glider. In this respect, there would be no such additional training or additional endorsements required. Further, 61.31(d)(2) says nothing about putting any limitations on the solo endorsement.

Would also mean, the Glider-rated pilot would have no restrictions getting a solo endorsement to fly in the Airplane category. All they need is the training required for that Category (and Class) applicable to their pilot certificate level.

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 9:05:28 AM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 12:24:29 AM UTC-4, Bill T wrote:

It is my understanding that The FAA no longer considers a pilot with a certificate, a student. They are a rated pilot in search of additional ratings.
Hence they do not require a written test going from airplane to glider. As shown in other posts on RAS, the way to be considered a student is to turn in all your certificates and start from scratch, a student, complete with written tests and student limitations,

This appears to work differently for PPL-Power and PPL-Glider.

In March 2016, I asked the Portland ME FSDO whether my PPL-Glider certificate would allow me to solo a power plane (assuming current medical and CFI endorsement). They told me (in writing) that I needed to obtain a valid Student Pilot license.

Has anyone obtained a different opinion from a different FSDO?

I'm hoping that IACRA is programmed correctly, and lets me obtain a student pilot certificate, even though I already hold a PPL-Glider.

I believe they are incorrect.
You are a private pilot and no longer act as a student, even though you may be subject to the training and solo constraints associated with the airplane instruction.
UH

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 2:24:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 9:05:28 AM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 12:24:29 AM UTC-4, Bill T wrote:

It is my understanding that The FAA no longer considers a pilot with a certificate, a student. They are a rated pilot in search of additional ratings.
Hence they do not require a written test going from airplane to glider. As shown in other posts on RAS, the way to be considered a student is to turn in all your certificates and start from scratch, a student, complete with written tests and student limitations,

This appears to work differently for PPL-Power and PPL-Glider.

In March 2016, I asked the Portland ME FSDO whether my PPL-Glider certificate would allow me to solo a power plane (assuming current medical and CFI endorsement). They told me (in writing) that I needed to obtain a valid Student Pilot license.

Has anyone obtained a different opinion from a different FSDO?

I'm hoping that IACRA is programmed correctly, and lets me obtain a student pilot certificate, even though I already hold a PPL-Glider.

I believe they are incorrect.
You are a private pilot and no longer act as a student, even though you may be subject to the training and solo constraints associated with the airplane instruction.
UH

Does that mean if he is not current in gliders he can not solo an airplane?

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 1:52:39 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 2:24:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 9:05:28 AM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 12:24:29 AM UTC-4, Bill T wrote:

It is my understanding that The FAA no longer considers a pilot with a certificate, a student. They are a rated pilot in search of additional ratings.
Hence they do not require a written test going from airplane to glider. As shown in other posts on RAS, the way to be considered a student is to turn in all your certificates and start from scratch, a student, complete with written tests and student limitations,

This appears to work differently for PPL-Power and PPL-Glider.

In March 2016, I asked the Portland ME FSDO whether my PPL-Glider certificate would allow me to solo a power plane (assuming current medical and CFI endorsement). They told me (in writing) that I needed to obtain a valid Student Pilot license.

Has anyone obtained a different opinion from a different FSDO?

I'm hoping that IACRA is programmed correctly, and lets me obtain a student pilot certificate, even though I already hold a PPL-Glider.

I believe they are incorrect.
You are a private pilot and no longer act as a student, even though you may be subject to the training and solo constraints associated with the airplane instruction.
UH

Does that mean if he is not current in gliders he can not solo an airplane?

My take is that based on the Beard interpretation, he would have to have a flight review in the aircraft he is rated in for a solo endorsement in SEA to be valid

This is all a basket of bull. The SSA and the EAA need to flex their combined muscles and straighten this horse pucky out. Somewhere along the line we forgot that these idiot FAA bureocrates are here to serve us not the other way around.
Dan

It is my understanding that the FAA has agreed that it needs to be corrected, but the interpretation of the regulations, as they as written, is correct. In order to fix it, the FAA has to go through the rule making procedure as it does with any regulatory change, and that takes time. I know for a fact that the SSA is deeply involved and are working with the FAA. As with anything involving the government, patience is a virtue.

Many thanks to Ken Sorenson and the entire SSA team for their involvement.

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 8:05:28 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 12:24:29 AM UTC-4, Bill T wrote:

It is my understanding that The FAA no longer considers a pilot with a certificate, a student. They are a rated pilot in search of additional ratings.
Hence they do not require a written test going from airplane to glider. As shown in other posts on RAS, the way to be considered a student is to turn in all your certificates and start from scratch, a student, complete with written tests and student limitations,

This appears to work differently for PPL-Power and PPL-Glider.

In March 2016, I asked the Portland ME FSDO whether my PPL-Glider certificate would allow me to solo a power plane (assuming current medical and CFI endorsement). They told me (in writing) that I needed to obtain a valid Student Pilot license.

Has anyone obtained a different opinion from a different FSDO?

I'm hoping that IACRA is programmed correctly, and lets me obtain a student pilot certificate, even though I already hold a PPL-Glider.

Couple of points.

(1) I don't think you can get a Student Pilot certificate unless you surrender in your current FAA-issued pilot certificate to the FAA. If you don't have an FAA-issued pilot certificate you can get a Student Pilot certificate..

(2) Part 61 says nothing special about getting the Airplane Category as an additional rating or requirements for added rating solo if you already are rated in Glider category.

(3) The FAA Designated Pilot Examiner's handbook has no guidance for DPEs in this regard either, except you would need to pass the Airplane Knowledge Test to qualify for the Airplane Practical Test and have night flight training.

(4) The Practical Test Standards for Private Pilot Airplane specifically calls out the Private Pilot Glider rating as one previously held, and allows you to skip tasks that are the same for both Airplane and Glider and were already covered when you took the Glider Practical Test.

It sounds to me like this FSDO does not know what they are talking about.

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 6:05:28 AM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 12:24:29 AM UTC-4, Bill T wrote:

It is my understanding that The FAA no longer considers a pilot with a certificate, a student. They are a rated pilot in search of additional ratings.
Hence they do not require a written test going from airplane to glider. As shown in other posts on RAS, the way to be considered a student is to turn in all your certificates and start from scratch, a student, complete with written tests and student limitations,

This appears to work differently for PPL-Power and PPL-Glider.

In March 2016, I asked the Portland ME FSDO whether my PPL-Glider certificate would allow me to solo a power plane (assuming current medical and CFI endorsement). They told me (in writing) that I needed to obtain a valid Student Pilot license.

Has anyone obtained a different opinion from a different FSDO?

I'm hoping that IACRA is programmed correctly, and lets me obtain a student pilot certificate, even though I already hold a PPL-Glider.

I'm guessing this will not happen. My understanding is you cannot be a student pilot - get a student pilot certificate - once you are a certificated pilot. On the other hand, the FAR's confuse me most of the time.

As everyone has responded , ME FSDO did not do his research.

With a PP Glider certificate, you can act as PIC for solo operations in an airplane with the 61.31 endorsement.
Regardless what the ME FSDO may say, OKC will not issue two active pilot certificates to the same pilot.
OKC will not issue a new student certificate without the PP glider certificate being surrendered.

I caution my glider students, now rated glider pilots about this when they move on to get their airplane rating. I even agree to meet with their airplane instructor to review if they like. Not many airplane CFIs are used to rated pilots coming for private pilot airplane training.

BillT