What would you buy with a 50k budget?

Kirk,

One way to lay out your decision tree is to consider which engine you'd
want first. I'd suggest the Lycoming O-235, O-320, O-360 or the
Continental O-200. I think the Continental is the least desirable of
these four, but talk to some local mechanics.

You don't say how lithe you are, but I'm a similar age and don't enjoy
popping in and out of a Cherokee. Having two doors is very nice,
especially for short flights with a co-pilot.

For someone who enjoys flying and is approaching retirement, I say 'why
fly fast?' I generally fly a C-172, an Arrow and a Bonanza and flying
the 172 is just as fun as flying the others, unless I'm in weather or at
a very busy airport.

Have you considered a third partner? Fuel is expensive, but fixed costs
are high, too, including avionics. A third partner would knock down
these costs a bit. I don't think a fourth is worth the trouble. You
could also add the Powerflow exhaust to a C-172 and fly it enough with
three to make it pay. I would think the added climb performance would
be nice in Florida.

For the production planes, I would look at a Musketeer class, a Warrior,
a Cherokee 180, a Cheetah and a C-172. I think the economy of a C-152
is negated by its small size, unless your proportions are quite modest.

The Musketeers are said to be quite comfortable, but they are slow and
some say landing can be tricky at first. The Cherokee 180 is perhaps
the most performance for the money, but I don't like crawling in and
out. It's possibly the only plane with the O-360 that you might find
for under $50k, though.

Some say the Cheetah is hard to steer with its castoring nosewheel, but
I thought it was completely a non-issue when I flew a Tiger.

I recently read through the NTSB accident reports on the Tiger and was
surprised to find a number of carb ice crashes. I don't know if the
Cheetah is the same. I would think using a carb temp gauge would
prevent most accidents.

If money is a major consideration, I would never consider a retractable,
unless the plane is flown cross-country for hundreds of hours per year.

Another option is just to make friends with someone who already owns a
plane and fly with him. Don't know if that would scratch your itch or not.

Anyway, these are my thoughts.

Good luck.

-John

Kirk Ellis wrote:

A fellow pilot/friend and I have been knocking around the idea of
doing a 2-way partnership on an aircraft next summer. I have had my
ticket since 1998 although I have only 150 some odd hours total. My
friend has about half that. Relatively speaking we still consider
ourselves newbie "students" but have this overwhelming desire to
become the best pilots possible and that requires lots of practice.

To that end we think that the best way is to have an aircraft that is
ready on a moments notice for us. We live in northern Florida and what
is particularly difficult for us as VFR only pilots is caused by the
whims of the weather. If we rent, we don't have the flexibility to
wake up one morning, see that it's not raining or threatening to and
be able to make the decision then and there to go flying. That's a
benefit we can't get from the flight school we normally rent from
which in in our recent experience has been in the Archer III.

So we are going to be looking for a plane that will fit a 50k budget.
We know we can find a decent 150 or 152 for less than that, and have
talked about a two seater being adequate for us to gain experience and
build time. But we also have dreams of doing some cross country flying
like from JAX to the Keys or we have even dicussed how awesome it
would be to be able to fly to central Texas where we both have
relatives to visit. For that, I am thinking a 4-seater would be best,
and besides there might be some times when we want to go get that $100
burger with another friend or 2. I think we'd like to go for something
not any older than say 30 or 32 years..circa 1976 - 1978 or newer.

So we have begun our journey which will hopefully culminate next
summer with us being able to say we are aircraft owners.

But to the question as indicated in the subject line. What would you
buy if all you had was 50k and what criteria would you apply to base
that decision? I know there will be many opinions and that's fine. It
will be interesting to see what we might be able to afford with that
budget.

Thanks



Kirk Ellis
PPL-ASEL

What would I do with $50K?

pay off the remaining balance of the cherokee, replace the 30 yr old
linoleum in the kitchen, buy a new washing machine (that's almost
30 yr old, too!)

But then, it's a gender thing...

I have a hunch that the market is bad enough that you will be able to
get a much better plane for $50K than many are suggesting.

I think they would be really hard to sell right about now.

So many of the planes that seem to be too expensive for you will
still be sale when you are flying around in yours! Their owners
haven't
grasped what is going on. I'll bet you could buy one for about 60-70%
of
what you are expecting if you were patient; and it wouldn't be a heap.

So I'd pick the airplane that would meet your needs that you could
get a really good deal on. It wouldn't matter a lot what brand it
was.

I have seen project airplanes suggested. Only buy one of those
if you want a project.

And, BTW, I wouldn't buy a Bonanza older than H-35. Too many
speciality problems to know about. They can be a great deal if you
are really expert; otherwise, you could drown in AMUs spent.

Bill Hale



On May 17, 5:24*am, Kirk Ellis wrote:
A fellow pilot/friend and I have been knocking around the idea of
doing a 2-way partnership on an aircraft next summer. I have had my
ticket since 1998 although I have only 150 some odd hours total. My
friend has about half that. Relatively speaking we still consider
ourselves newbie "students" but have this overwhelming desire to
become the best pilots possible and that requires lots of practice.

As you can see from the responses, opinions vary quite a bit.

Anyway, it comes down to how badly you want it and how much you are
willing to risk going in with a limited budget. Sure, you can buy a
cheap bird from Trade-a-Plane. Sure, you can buy something from before
the Kennedy administration. It might fly around for a while, might not.
Choose newer and/or well maintained (pricier) equipment and the risk
tends to go down along with the unexpected "surprises".

You have got to be a little nuts to tackle flying in the first place.
The arcane FAA rules, the weather, the instructors, scheduling, the
cost. All formidable hurdles.

I've seen pilots like you from time to time. They get a license by
overcoming all the obstacles only to say "now what" when they finally
get their ticket. Renting is too limiting for some and the great leap of
faith to owning seems insurmountable.

Too bad you cannot locate a club. It seems like a good fit for what you
are trying to accomplish. Keep looking. Maybe a 3 way partnership if you
all want to get 80 or so hours a year out of it.

The other posters had some great points to consider also. Some even made
their points without being too big of jerks in the process. Ah, progress...

Good Luck,
Mike

On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:54:03 -0500, Mike Spera
wrote:



As you can see from the responses, opinions vary quite a bit.

snip
Choose newer and/or well maintained (pricier) equipment and the risk
tends to go down along with the unexpected "surprises".

You have got to be a little nuts to tackle flying in the first place.
The arcane FAA rules, the weather, the instructors, scheduling, the
cost. All formidable hurdles.

Colleagues, friends and family all think my flying partner and I are
bonkers to even be discussing the purchase of an airplane. It's an
insane, irrational, idiotic, and plain dumb idea to them. What ARE we
thinking???!!!

But our rationale has been exactly what you mentioned above; that a
newer plane will not require all the up front cash for repairs and
upgrades and what we will initially need is the cash outlay for the
down payment.Then during the course of the next couple of years we can
put aside some $$$ for every hour flown to cover maintenance issues
that will come up later. Or is this just a totally insane, irrational,
idiotic and just plain dumb rationization?

We could only do this if we purchase an almost new LSA. We checked out
many of them at SNF and saw a couple of possibilities like the
Sportcruiser, the Toxo and the one from Flightdesign. We think we
could find something around the 125k range. We could each afford half
of the monthly payments on a 125K with a 10 year note, but we don't
believe we can get the loan unless we each have the ability to make
the total monthly payment independently.

So there's the rub with the LSA purchase and the main reason why I
asked about the 50K budget. If a loan institution will indeed only
loan as much as what each of us separately could cover then that means
we'd have to purchase an older aircraft and come up with cash to
"fix-er-up" and likely spend a good portion of our time on a project
giving us less flying opportunities.

snip
Renting is too limiting for some and the great leap of
faith to owning seems insurmountable.

So the biggest obstacle to surmount would be the loan requirements if
we go the LSA route. We are not sure yet if there is any way around
it. I may have an idea about that but have not fleshed it out yet.

Too bad you cannot locate a club. It seems like a good fit for what you
are trying to accomplish. Keep looking. Maybe a 3 way partnership if you
all want to get 80 or so hours a year out of it.

Clubs are pretty much extinct in this part of the country. But if we
decide to purchase and continue this wacky endeavor called flying, it
wiill take us at least a year to get all of our ducks in line
financially. In that time it could be wise for us to look for a third
partner, if we can find one interested in the LSA idea. It may take a
while.


The other posters had some great points to consider also. Some even made
their points without being too big of jerks in the process. Ah, progress...

Many good recommendations... and much food for thought. Thanks to all.

Kirk

Colleagues, friends and family all think my flying partner and I are
bonkers to even be discussing the purchase of an airplane. It's an
insane, irrational, idiotic, and plain dumb idea to them. What ARE we
thinking???!!!

Get new friends.

Lou

On Wed, 21 May 2008 01:11:08 -0700 (PDT), Lou
wrote:

Colleagues, friends and family all think my flying partner and I are
bonkers to even be discussing the purchase of an airplane. It's an
insane, irrational, idiotic, and plain dumb idea to them. What ARE we
thinking???!!!

Get new friends.

Lou

A textbook example of lateral thinking.

Kirk

Get new friends.

Lou

A textbook example of lateral thinking.

Yes, but that doesn't make it any less true...

:-)

BTW: I'm in the process of starting a new flying club in Iowa City. It's not
hard to do, although it helps to know a bunch of pilots.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I'm just sort of curious, Mike. What is there on a 1958 airplane that is
going to break after 500 hours flying it that isn't going to break on a 2008
airplane after 500 hours flying it. No handwaving. Point to parts.

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle



Anyway, it comes down to how badly you want it and how much you are
willing to risk going in with a limited budget. Sure, you can buy a cheap
bird from Trade-a-Plane. Sure, you can buy something from before the
Kennedy administration. It might fly around for a while, might not. Choose
newer and/or well maintained (pricier) equipment and the risk tends to go
down along with the unexpected "surprises".

On Wed, 21 May 2008 14:03:51 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Get new friends.

Lou

A textbook example of lateral thinking.

Yes, but that doesn't make it any less true...

:-)

BTW: I'm in the process of starting a new flying club in Iowa City. It's not
hard to do, although it helps to know a bunch of pilots.


This area needs a flying club and it would be fun to start one here.
But if an idea or a product does not exist it's either because no one
has thought of it or made the effort, or someone has tried and
discovered that it isn't viable due to market forces.

Kirk