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#1
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Third class abroad
Apparently, the FAA third is not valid abroad unless specifically allowed
by the coutry you're flying in. An FAA Class 3 Medical is not issued in accordance with ICAO specifically because the US filed differences with Annex 3. Therefore the medical is only valid within the confines of the United States. Doesn't matter what the reg if the airplane is, either.. Bertie |
#2
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Third class abroad
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Apparently, the FAA third is not valid abroad unless specifically allowed by the coutry you're flying in. Surprising. Any specifics? e.g., which country did not recognize the FAA Class-III? in what circumstance? (I mean, flying a N- registered aircraft or a locally registered aircraft)? who made the call (local aviation authority official, or some busy body imposing made up rules on the spot -- that I have seen happen a few times :-) was it a class-III per se, or a Class-II or better that had expired into a Class-III? (this one can cause confusion as well, even though it is spelled out on the piece of paper proper); was it an unrestricted Class-III, or does it bear some kind of restriction? --Sylvain |
#3
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Third class abroad
Sylvain wrote in
t: Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Apparently, the FAA third is not valid abroad unless specifically allowed by the coutry you're flying in. Surprising. Any specifics? e.g., which country did not recognize the FAA Class-III? Almost all of them, I think. in what circumstance? (I mean, flying a N- registered aircraft or a locally registered aircraft)? Both. your FAA licence is not valid anywhere outside the US without express permission of the local authority. who made the call (local aviation authority official, or some busy body imposing made up rules on the spot -- that I have seen happen a few times :-) was it a class-III per se, or a Class-II or better that had expired into a Class-III? (this one can cause confusion as well, even though it is spelled out on the piece of paper proper); was it an unrestricted Class-III, or does it bear some kind of restriction? The FAA are responsible for this. When they degraded the class three below international standards. It was a tradeoff. I think it's mostly the time thing, but I think they lowered standards in other areas as well. Lower eyesight, maybe I don't know. This allows a lot more people to fly in the US and all anyone who wants to fly abroad has to do is get a class 2, so it seems like a good idea to me. I got the info from a friend of mine who's an examiner in Europe. I put it to him that it would be legal to fly a US reg airplane with a standard private anywhere in the world, and he told me that while this used to be the case, it is no longer.. Bertie |
#4
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Third class abroad
On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 09:16:31 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote: Sylvain wrote in et: Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Apparently, the FAA third is not valid abroad unless specifically allowed by the coutry you're flying in. Surprising. Any specifics? e.g., which country did not recognize the FAA Class-III? Almost all of them, I think. in what circumstance? (I mean, flying a N- registered aircraft or a locally registered aircraft)? Both. your FAA licence is not valid anywhere outside the US without express permission of the local authority. who made the call (local aviation authority official, or some busy body imposing made up rules on the spot -- that I have seen happen a few times :-) was it a class-III per se, or a Class-II or better that had expired into a Class-III? (this one can cause confusion as well, even though it is spelled out on the piece of paper proper); was it an unrestricted Class-III, or does it bear some kind of restriction? The FAA are responsible for this. When they degraded the class three below international standards. It was a tradeoff. I think it's mostly the time thing, but I think they lowered standards in other areas as well. Lower eyesight, maybe I don't know. This allows a lot more people to fly in the US and all anyone who wants to fly abroad has to do is get a class 2, so it seems like a good idea to me. I got the info from a friend of mine who's an examiner in Europe. I put it to him that it would be legal to fly a US reg airplane with a standard private anywhere in the world, and he told me that while this used to be the case, it is no longer.. In all honesty, I know a number of people who would really like to see the exact regulatory reasoning with citations as to why a pilot with an FAA pilot certificate and a valid 3rd class medical flying an N registered aircraft isn't legal outside of the US any longer, including the AME who just did my 2nd class medical last week who is also a pilot and knows nothing about this subject we chatted specifically about during the visit. |
#5
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Third class abroad
Peter Clark wrote in
: On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 09:16:31 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Sylvain wrote in news:dLqdnXWwn7dTyTvVnZ2dnUVZ_qTinZ2d@speakeasy. net: Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Apparently, the FAA third is not valid abroad unless specifically allowed by the coutry you're flying in. Surprising. Any specifics? e.g., which country did not recognize the FAA Class-III? Almost all of them, I think. in what circumstance? (I mean, flying a N- registered aircraft or a locally registered aircraft)? Both. your FAA licence is not valid anywhere outside the US without express permission of the local authority. who made the call (local aviation authority official, or some busy body imposing made up rules on the spot -- that I have seen happen a few times :-) was it a class-III per se, or a Class-II or better that had expired into a Class-III? (this one can cause confusion as well, even though it is spelled out on the piece of paper proper); was it an unrestricted Class-III, or does it bear some kind of restriction? The FAA are responsible for this. When they degraded the class three below international standards. It was a tradeoff. I think it's mostly the time thing, but I think they lowered standards in other areas as well. Lower eyesight, maybe I don't know. This allows a lot more people to fly in the US and all anyone who wants to fly abroad has to do is get a class 2, so it seems like a good idea to me. I got the info from a friend of mine who's an examiner in Europe. I put it to him that it would be legal to fly a US reg airplane with a standard private anywhere in the world, and he told me that while this used to be the case, it is no longer.. In all honesty, I know a number of people who would really like to see the exact regulatory reasoning with citations as to why a pilot with an FAA pilot certificate and a valid 3rd class medical flying an N registered aircraft isn't legal outside of the US any longer, It's simple. ICAO have international agreements on what constitutes the minimum standard that a pilot may operate in any of the member's countrie's. The FAA have opted out of keeping the 3rd class to that standard. ICAO haven't changed the rules, th eFAA have only elected to lower the standards in order to allow a larger number of applicants into the club and also to allow the certificate to last longer. including the AME who just did my 2nd class medical last week who is also a pilot and knows nothing about this subject we chatted specifically about during the visit. I'm not an expert on it, but I do have a furrin friend who is and I cut and pasted exactly what he told me in my previous post. I looked at the ICAO site, but I got bored wading throug the gobblydegook. Bertie |
#6
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Third class abroad
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
countrie's. The FAA have opted out of keeping the 3rd class to that standard. ICAO haven't changed the rules, th eFAA have only elected to lower the standards in order to allow a larger number of applicants into the club and also to allow the certificate to last longer. Actually, the new duration of the FAA Class-III matches the new duration of the JAR Class-II (which is just a fancy new name for their old Class-III, they just removed their old Class-II); i.e., five years it is if you are younger than 40. Actually, it used to be the case for some national pre-JAR medical certificates (like the British CAA Class-III before it was replaced by the JAR Class-II); I am a bit surprised by your conclusion since I have both a JAR Class-II (well, I have to renew the dang thing soon which means a trip to Canada, the closest place with a British AME -- nope, JAR does not mean that any JAR AME can do it surprisingly enough), and a FAA medical as well (a Class-II, but then, the only difference with the Class-III is that I have to do it more often, everything else being exactly the same); Note that this is a little pet peeve of mine, since I fly with a SODA, and have paid particularly close attention to these issues over the years; I did however met with my share of people who wanted to enforce their own interpretation of the rules but that's a different story :-) Well, I'll ask the question to my AMEs (both the FAA one -- since I have the renew this one as well soon -- and the JAR one), they ought to know, and will report on this if you guys are interested. --Sylvain |
#7
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Third class abroad
Sylvain wrote in
: Bertie the Bunyip wrote: countrie's. The FAA have opted out of keeping the 3rd class to that standard. ICAO haven't changed the rules, th eFAA have only elected to lower the standards in order to allow a larger number of applicants into the club and also to allow the certificate to last longer. Actually, the new duration of the FAA Class-III matches the new duration of the JAR Class-II (which is just a fancy new name for their old Class-III, they just removed their old Class-II); i.e., five years it is if you are younger than 40. Actually, it used to be the case for some national pre-JAR medical certificates (like the British CAA Class-III before it was replaced by the JAR Class-II); Ah, OK. Didn't know that. I have a JAR 1 and they're a year now. I am a bit surprised by your conclusion since I have both a JAR Class-II (well, I have to renew the dang thing soon which means a trip to Canada, the closest place with a British AME -- nope, JAR does not mean that any JAR AME can do it surprisingly enough), and a FAA medical as well (a Class-II, but then, the only difference with the Class-III is that I have to do it more often, everything else being exactly the same); Note that this is a little pet peeve of mine, since I fly with a SODA, and have paid particularly close attention to these issues over the years; I did however met with my share of people who wanted to enforce their own interpretation of the rules but that's a different story :-) Well, I'll ask the question to my AMEs (both the FAA one -- since I have the renew this one as well soon -- and the JAR one), they ought to know, and will report on this if you guys are interested. Well, it is something a lot of people are going to need to know about, but how they're going to find out definitively, I have no idea. It doesn't really matter to me since I have to have class ones no matter what, but it's a bit surprising that the FAA hasn't made it clear.. Bertie |
#8
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Third class abroad
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
... Peter Clark wrote in : On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 09:16:31 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Sylvain wrote in news:dLqdnXWwn7dTyTvVnZ2dnUVZ_qTinZ2d@speakeasy .net: Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Apparently, the FAA third is not valid abroad unless specifically allowed by the coutry you're flying in. Surprising. Any specifics? e.g., which country did not recognize the FAA Class-III? Almost all of them, I think. in what circumstance? (I mean, flying a N- registered aircraft or a locally registered aircraft)? Both. your FAA licence is not valid anywhere outside the US without express permission of the local authority. who made the call (local aviation authority official, or some busy body imposing made up rules on the spot -- that I have seen happen a few times :-) was it a class-III per se, or a Class-II or better that had expired into a Class-III? (this one can cause confusion as well, even though it is spelled out on the piece of paper proper); was it an unrestricted Class-III, or does it bear some kind of restriction? The FAA are responsible for this. When they degraded the class three below international standards. It was a tradeoff. I think it's mostly the time thing, but I think they lowered standards in other areas as well. Lower eyesight, maybe I don't know. This allows a lot more people to fly in the US and all anyone who wants to fly abroad has to do is get a class 2, so it seems like a good idea to me. I got the info from a friend of mine who's an examiner in Europe. I put it to him that it would be legal to fly a US reg airplane with a standard private anywhere in the world, and he told me that while this used to be the case, it is no longer.. In all honesty, I know a number of people who would really like to see the exact regulatory reasoning with citations as to why a pilot with an FAA pilot certificate and a valid 3rd class medical flying an N registered aircraft isn't legal outside of the US any longer, It's simple. ICAO have international agreements on what constitutes the minimum standard that a pilot may operate in any of the member's countrie's. The FAA have opted out of keeping the 3rd class to that standard. ICAO haven't changed the rules, th eFAA have only elected to lower the standards in order to allow a larger number of applicants into the club and also to allow the certificate to last longer. In fact, the reverse is true. The FAA opted in to bringing their medical duration lengths to the ICAO standard. ICAO changed the medical duration standards in 2005, and the FAA rule change in June of this year mirrored those standards. In fact, in part of the reasoning behind the FAA's rule change they cited the ICAO standards and noted there had been no adverse impact to safety by the member states that adopted those standards. I'm not sure what you mean my "international agreements". ICAO writes the standards, and member states may or may not follow them. The recent trend among most countries, including the US, is to align themselves to ICAO standards. |
#9
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Third class abroad
On Aug 15, 4:43*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Apparently, the FAA third is not valid abroad unless specifically allowed by the coutry you're flying in. An FAA Class 3 Medical is not issued in accordance with ICAO specifically because the US filed differences with Annex 3. Therefore the medical is only valid within the confines of the United States. Doesn't matter what the reg if the airplane is, either.. I guess it depends on the country. ICAO only recognizes class 3 medicals for certain ATC controllers. Private Pilots are requird to have at least a class 2. Not sure what countries require the strict ICAO medical requirements though. -Robert |
#10
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Third class abroad
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in
: On Aug 15, 4:43*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Apparently, the FAA third is not valid abroad unless specifically allowed by the coutry you're flying in. An FAA Class 3 Medical is not issued in accordance with ICAO specifically because the US filed differences with Annex 3. Therefore the medical is only valid within the confines of the United States. Doesn't matter what the reg if the airplane is, either.. I guess it depends on the country. ICAO only recognizes class 3 medicals for certain ATC controllers. Private Pilots are requird to have at least a class 2. Not sure what countries require the strict ICAO medical requirements though. Dunno. I'm far from expert on this. I was only repeating what I'd been told. I'll have to ask this guy for some more details when I talk to him next. He was talking about flying in JAR land, BTW. Don't know if that makes any difference, but I'll find out. I wouldn't be surprised if Canada, for instance, still accepted the FAA 3rd .. Seems like it's something that will have to be checked out before you went aviating outside the US though. |
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