Fun toy to have

John Smith wrote:
In article ,
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:

Jumping back to the driver issue and machine issue that has been brought
up. The machine in question was an Alienware 3.3 P4ht that while not a
duo was a pretty fast machine and has 2GB of ram. The driver problems we
had with it were nVidia graphics drivers.

Does it have one of the defective nVidia cards?


No It has a 6800 which has worked fine and continued to work fin once I
put XP back on the machine.

Neil Gould wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
Jay Maynard wrote:
MS pretty much knows it built a dog. That's why they have kept
pushing back the drop dead date on XP.
What drop dead date on XP are you referring to?
Probably the one where you can't get it any more.

Considering that I purchased a new copy of Windows 2000 a couple
weeks ago, I think that your notion that you can't get XP anymore --
or even that one won't be able to get XP for years to come -- is not
based in reality.

Neil

That's the point. MS has set at least 3 dates that will be the day
that XP can no longer be purchased and 2 of them have already passed.
Comparing Win2000 with XP is not really apples to apples. One is
server software. They are likely to be selling that when we are both
dead.

Win2000 came in a few varieties, as does XP and Vista. The version that I
purchased recently is Win2k Pro, intended for workstations, not servers. The
version you are referring to was called Server 2000, and it's been updated
to 2003 & 2007. One point that I was making is that the marketplace
determines the longevity of operating systems and application software.


We are violent agreement here. The point I'm trying to make is that MS
didn't want the market to determine that when it came to XP they wanted
to and it isn't working.


Jumping back to the driver issue and machine issue that has been
brought up. The machine in question was an Alienware 3.3 P4ht that
while not a duo was a pretty fast machine and has 2GB of ram. The
driver problems we had with it were nVidia graphics drivers.

Drivers can be an issue, even with older application software. It isn't at
all surprising that you might have difficulty with an OS that nVidia didn't
support, and points the finger directly at them, not at Vista.


nVidia along with ATI own the video card market. If MS couldn't get
nVidia (and I've heard about the same problems with ATI cards) on board
in time for the roll out there shouldn't have been a roll out. For a lot
of home users their machines pretty much became bricks when they loaded
Vista.

Neil Gould schrieb:
The version you are referring to was called Server 2000, and it's been
updated to 2003 & 2007.

s/2007/2008, IIRC.

#m

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:

That's the point. MS has set at least 3 dates that will be the day that
XP can no longer be purchased and 2 of them have already passed.
Comparing Win2000 with XP is not really apples to apples. One is server
software. They are likely to be selling that when we are both dead.


The last sale date for standard XP from OEMs and software vendors (XP in a
box) was June 30th. I bought my new XP system on the 28th. Dell seemed to
be the only ones that were still selling XP systems on that date.

XP sales are still authorized for business systems, but they are
technically classed as a Vista system sale with a "downgrade option" to XP.
Basically, you get a system loaded with XP with a CD to upgrade to Vista at a
future date. XP is also authorized for sale on "low end" systems. Systems
that do not have the power to run Vista efficiently.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

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On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:43:28 GMT, "JGalban via AviationKB.com"
u32749@uwe wrote:

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:

That's the point. MS has set at least 3 dates that will be the day that
XP can no longer be purchased and 2 of them have already passed.
Comparing Win2000 with XP is not really apples to apples. One is server
software. They are likely to be selling that when we are both dead.


The last sale date for standard XP from OEMs and software vendors (XP in a
box) was June 30th. I bought my new XP system on the 28th. Dell seemed to
be the only ones that were still selling XP systems on that date.

XP sales are still authorized for business systems, but they are
technically classed as a Vista system sale with a "downgrade option" to XP.
Basically, you get a system loaded with XP with a CD to upgrade to Vista at a
future date. XP is also authorized for sale on "low end" systems. Systems
that do not have the power to run Vista efficiently.

I think there's a hair being split here. What licence Microsoft will
sell you directly doesn't neccessarily equivelate to people who have a
stack of unsold Windows 2000 OEM packs laying around and will still
sell you. Good luck if you need a security patch or other support for
it once installed if it's not XP or Vista though.

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:

Win2000 came in a few varieties, as does XP and Vista. The version
that I purchased recently is Win2k Pro, intended for workstations,
not servers. The version you are referring to was called Server
2000, and it's been updated to 2003 & 2007. One point that I was
making is that the marketplace determines the longevity of operating
systems and application software.


We are violent agreement here. The point I'm trying to make is that MS
didn't want the market to determine that when it came to XP they
wanted to and it isn't working.

This hasn't changed from DOS days. But, it is still relevant to recognize
that even the faulty declarations of the article could be interpreted to say
that 2/3 of all new Windows machines are sold with Vista. That doesn't sound
like a marketing failure to me.

Jumping back to the driver issue and machine issue that has been
brought up. The machine in question was an Alienware 3.3 P4ht that
while not a duo was a pretty fast machine and has 2GB of ram. The
driver problems we had with it were nVidia graphics drivers.

Drivers can be an issue, even with older application software. It
isn't at all surprising that you might have difficulty with an OS
that nVidia didn't support, and points the finger directly at them,
not at Vista.


nVidia along with ATI own the video card market. If MS couldn't get
nVidia (and I've heard about the same problems with ATI cards) on
board in time for the roll out there shouldn't have been a roll out.

I disagree, considering that the majority of new motherboards have on-board
video that is perfectly satisfactory for most users and is already
compatible with Vista.

For a lot of home users their machines pretty much became bricks when
they loaded Vista.

They should have read the specs first. Most home users' machines don't meet
the minimum requirements, and those that do will only get the minimum
performance out of Vista. ;-)

Neil

Peter Clark wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:43:28 GMT, "JGalban via AviationKB.com"
u32749@uwe wrote:

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:

That's the point. MS has set at least 3 dates that will be the day
that XP can no longer be purchased and 2 of them have already
passed. Comparing Win2000 with XP is not really apples to apples.
One is server software. They are likely to be selling that when we
are both dead.


The last sale date for standard XP from OEMs and software vendors
(XP in a box) was June 30th. I bought my new XP system on the
28th. Dell seemed to be the only ones that were still selling XP
systems on that date.

XP sales are still authorized for business systems, but they are
technically classed as a Vista system sale with a "downgrade option"
to XP. Basically, you get a system loaded with XP with a CD to
upgrade to Vista at a future date. XP is also authorized for sale
on "low end" systems. Systems that do not have the power to run
Vista efficiently.

I think there's a hair being split here. What licence Microsoft will
sell you directly doesn't neccessarily equivelate to people who have a
stack of unsold Windows 2000 OEM packs laying around and will still
sell you. Good luck if you need a security patch or other support for
it once installed if it's not XP or Vista though.

The security patches and other support is still available for Windows 2000
on Microsoft's site. They just discontinued support for Win98 at the
beginning of this year. XP has a long way to go.

Neil

JGalban via AviationKB.com schrieb:

XP sales are still authorized for business systems, but they are
technically classed as a Vista system sale with a "downgrade option" to XP.
Basically, you get a system loaded with XP with a CD to upgrade to Vista at a
future date. XP is also authorized for sale on "low end" systems. Systems
that do not have the power to run Vista efficiently.

you can still buy XP DSP (=OEM) here in Europe without limitation and
not bundled with Vista. But they will stop selling XP by the end of this
year (as I was told by my distributor).

#m

Neil Gould wrote:

The security patches and other support is still available for Windows 2000
on Microsoft's site. They just discontinued support for Win98 at the
beginning of this year. XP has a long way to go.


The OS is considered truly dead when MS quits supplying security and other
related patches. Win98 and WinME were discontinued way back in July of '06.
I was running an old ME system until July of this year and it was a pain. I
couldn't get any new hardware or software for it. It was running just fine
otherwise.

Before I ordered the new XP system a couple of months ago, I checked with
MS and they will continue to provide patches and fixes until 2014. That
works for me.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

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